She absolutely NAILS what my concept has always been for reference tracks. A reference track doesnāt have to match the genre or style in order to be valid.
I think this is why I feel Iām making such slow progress in learning mixing - whatās good to my ears is not the same as what Iām hearing in my head! Iām going to be taking this advice - actually importing a song into my session and referring to it at regular points.
Do it! Youāll find huge improvements in a pretty short amount of time. Itāll be a game changer for you.
Remember that your reference track is most likely going to be A LOT louder than your mix so adjust its volume to match your mix!
Why is that? Making your mix the same loudness as the reference track is all part of the process.
Not in the beginning of the mixing process.
Also note that the reference track is going to be mastered, so I donāt think youāre referencing the overall track loudness as much as youāre referencing the relationship of the instruments in a mix.
YMMV
[quote=ātachin1, post:8, topic:1065ā]
Also note that the reference track is going to be mastered, so I donāt think youāre referencing the overall track loudness as much as youāre referencing the relationship of the instruments in a mix
[/quote]I do both, the track is mixed and mastered as part of the same process. I would be surprised if the majority of members donāt work that way.
mixed or mastered or not, volume high or low thats not what your listening for anyway.
referencing is about listening to the way the various tones interact with eachother, the way the kick and bass wrap around eachother, the way the subtle panning of the guitars gives it more depth, the way the vocals sit in relation to the bass etc.
volume isnt that important and its better not to listen too loud
This is what I should have said above. lol
[quote=āLazyE, post:10, topic:1065, full:trueā]
mixed or mastered or not, volume high or low thats not what your listening for anyway.[/quote]Itās exactly what Iām listening for, along with indiviual levels in a mix.
[quote]referencing is about listening to the way the various tones interact with eachother, the way the kick and bass wrap around eachother, the way the subtle panning of the guitars gives it more depth, the way the vocals sit in relation to the bass etc.[/quote]Thatās not really any different to ālistening to musicā. Referencing is about importing the reference track into your DAW and A/B-ing it with your own project so that you can hear specific differences between your project and the reference track.
[quote]volume isnt that important and its better not to listen too loud
[/quote]The loudness point is not about the spl that the music is monitored at, itās about the specific LUFS rating of the reference material compared to your own project.
I was delighted when I found Reaperās Media Explorer. Itās close to the Pro Tools Workspace type thing. That way you can just pull up any song on your computer and play it from a separate player while still within the DAW. And itās not affected by any plugins or processing as an imported track would be unless you route it to different outputs. It has a volume knob (slider actually) so you can match volume to where your mix is at the moment. And itās easy to reference multiple songs that way as well. If I need to check the LUFS on the reference, I use the standalone Orban meter.
After starting out using ref tracks pretty often, I confess I fell off that wagon. But recently Iāve gotten back into the habit, and set up a template project file that has a track dedicated to the reference, routed to a separate output that is unaffected by anything on my master buss. Then a/bāing between my mix and the ref track is super simple. Then when I started reading Mike Seniorās book, it really reinforced itā¦ will be part of the SOP forevermore. 
Nice job Dave. You can also measure the reference trackās LUFS and try to match up your projectās LUFS. This will not only give you a loudness similar to the reference track, but more importantly this in turn will allow you to match individual levels - and sounds - precisely.
Yeah i meant between the two tracks.
I feel one of the mistake I made with the Personality mix contest ironically, was that I listened to the mastered mix too early, so I kept second guessing every last part of my own mix. But importing a song into your mix because you want to check the relationship of the vocals to the drums, or the delay and reverb of the mix or other elements seems so simple I feel little foolish that I hadnāt thought of it myself.
I guess that Iām the only one here that doesnāt use ref tracksā¦ 
I do have ref tracks that I use to check my system every so often.
But when I mix, I donāt want to hear ANYTHING until I get to push faders. You can never get that first listen back and I want to use that to make a gut instinct decision where I need to go. I enjoy that part way too much to let go of it right now. Iām NOT that sure of myself or that good or any of that. Itās just what Iāve developed over the years and I see it as a way to develop further. I want to give folks a reason to use me even though I donāt actually pursue it as a career/revenue source.
But when I do mixes for other folks or track drums or bass, I donāt want a reference or even a roughā¦
Iāll ādo my thingā and see how close we are in vision. For a paying customer (rare) I will bend over backwards after that initial mix to get the twains to meet. But if nothing else they will get new ideas that they might now have thought ofā¦
Iām NOT saying that refs are NOT valid or valuable. They work for a newbie or a seasoned pro. No doubt. This is just how I choose to work right now.
Have fun
rich
Whatās your go-to for making these LUFS measurements Adrian?