this months NTM mix
mine
my mix 3, more dynamic etc
my mix 4, sorted out intro levels a bit
mix 5
mix 6
original
Pretty good levels happening overall. Thereās a bit of a buildup in the 1-2k area that makes the mix sound slightly nasally and a little bit āAM-radio-likeā in the midrange. Get that high mid area under control and youāll be more in the ballpark of the original mix.
However, hereās the big challenge with this mix: Emphasise the light and shade in the arrangement. Highlight the dynamic contour of the storyline. Make the choruses hit hard. At present, the āmacro dynamicsā (long-term contrasts between verse and chorus etc) stay pretty much static throughout the song. This is actually the biggest difference I hear when I compare your mix with the original.
To really connect with the listener, the song needs to have emotional impact in the right places. This should be mainly a function of the arrangement, but sometimes that needs a lot of help. Even when it is present in the arrangement, sometimes the mix can take those moments of impact to the next level.
Some suggestions:
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Boost the level of the overdriven āpower chordā guitars in the chorus. Be careful not to thin those chorus guitars too much with high pass. While you donāt want them to muddy up the mix, you donāt need to high pass them too aggressively, otherwise they lose that thickness and power in the low mids needed to push the choruses.
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Add some extra distortion to the bass in the chorus.
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Push up the room mics on the drums to give a bigger sound in the chorus.
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Use some extra delay on the chorus vocals to give the impression of greater loudness (the āsound bouncing off the wallsā effect)
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Simply boost the overall level of the choruses compared to the verse.
3 Likes
I think thats essentially every single one of my mixes. like i could make a huge āsmileā EQ and leave it off and then do all of my mixing to where it sounds right to meā¦THEN throw on the huge smile EQ and itād probably be closer to reality.
mix 3, more dynamic and various other changes. Much more personality
(uh oh, hate mix 3 intro already, lemme go tweak it)
mix 4, turned down cymbals in intro, turned up lead gtrs in intro sightly
I took your advice and only listened to mix 4 - definitely an improvement in the overall impact & the fulness of the choruses over your first mix.
The vocal sounds better too - less nasally. Hereās where it gets into personal preference: Youāve kept the vocal a little āsmallerā sounding than the original mix. This works well for the bigger parts of the song, where it allows the music to retain a comparative sense of power and size. In the verses, the vocal tends to sound a little more intimate in the original mix because the mixer has retained some more low end in it than in your mix
Itās really down to what aesthetic youāre trying to create, but that idea of relative proportion and how its related to the low end (and extended high end to a degree) of an element is a really handy mixing tool to keep in your back pocket.
2 Likes
Alrighty! I listened to v4. Hereās my 3.14 centsā¦ take with many grains of salt because a lot of this is subjective, Iām listening on headphones, and itās potentially colored by the fact that Iām currently working on this track:
- Really dig the kickā¦ some good punch and seems to lock in nice with the bassā¦ it also isnāt obnoxious, like most of the submissions will be.
- I like the vocals, @ColdRoomStudio 's previous comment definitely makes sense about how it compares to the original. For NTM tracks that I didnāt know beforehand, I rarely listen to the original more than once, be that good or bad.
- Energy-wise, as @ColdRoomStudio alluded to in his earlier comment, the chorus could use a bit of a boost. I feel like it could be lifted a bit more? Subjective alert!
- What you did with the chorus guitars was really interesting, compared to how I did them. You kept them relatively subdued in the mids/upper mids, which helped the lead cut throughā¦ this was a problem I had, I went for pretty aggressive rhythms in the chorus but then I struggled with the lead. That being said I think thereās probably a happy medium where theyāve got some more bite but still donāt shadow the lead. This would help push the chorus energy as well. I donāt remember if they had amped guitar tracksā¦ did you use those or re-amp the DIās?
- thereās some weird pumping going on in the section with the drum roll. Usually a 2-bus compression thingā¦ I can definitely hear that you pulled out the full snare hits (or used a sample?) and I dunno if that has anything to do with it.
- The clean guitar towards the end of the tune could come down, feels loud compared to the preceding section.
- More toms? I can hear them but I like them to sound bigger. Thatās definitely a personal preference thing though.
Iām more than happy to post my mix here for bashing too if youāre cool with that!
Cheers!
B
2 Likes
did u check the vocal at 2:14? I did just as u r suggesting here, for a closer and more intimate sound I boosted the low end up significantly. So u think the verses should be done a similar way?
funny thing is, the vocal was way too loud earlier and I just gradually made everything else louder lol
ok, what section are we talking about here? Im assuming either the section at 1:28 or the one at 1:59ish
what do u hear pumpingā¦the cymbals? (pretend I wouldnt hear pumping if it slapped me)
hmm, no samples other than what came with it (or re amp guitars). I did the Beau Burchell reverse phase snare thingy IIRC to take some of the bleed out of the snare mic and then i basically used that snare for mostly bottom end/body and used the sample for more of the smack
Hmmmm I think itās around 2:15ā¦ the part with the drumroll and the vocal passage starts with āSee I wrote this noteā¦ā
I really hear it in the guitars, a few times right at the beginning of the section and a bit more towards the end. Hard to tell if itās a bus compression thing though, so Iām not sure what would be causing it.
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Iām not near good speakers atm. Have to have another listen when I get home tonight (other side of the world here).
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basically i just boosted a lot of low end warmth on the 1 section for a much closer/intimate sound
haha, nice ear. its the vocals sidechained into a compressor on the crunch guitars.
check the guitars isoād hehe:
theres a tiny bit on the first chorus but on that bridge section it got really bad because I boosted a lot of the vocal lows after I had set the sidechain etc so it pushed the compression up to like 5ish db
Mix 5
warmed up verse vx
fixed pumping
turned down outro clean gtr slightly
added titch of 200hz to snare
added titch of 5.5k to 2bus
other stuff i forgot already hehe
Ok. Iām coming on in mix 5ā¦havenāt gone through the others yet. I couldnāt get past the guitar that comes in at 8 seconds panned left. Those sound like octaves, and the strumming pattern in this seems really really mashed together and harsh. Over compressed?
When everything comes in at 23 sec, I think that kick seem really buried to me.
The hi-hat is driving me nuts. Thereās a sibilance around 5k thatās tearing through the reference monitors (I have them in 2 way mode at the moment). It still seems like a compression issue. And I wonder if the hats are bleeding through too many sources.
well I assume its going to be somewhat harsh overall because its punk and supposed to be bratty etc lol
yep, the hihats and cymbals in general are way harsh and sibilant. They did a whole teaching episode on NTM just based around the harshness of this months cymbals etc
u check the vocals in the official track? they are about as sibilant as humanly possible. if i compare my spectrum to theirs, mine has much less 10k because i simply cant roll with that much vocal sibilance
check the 5k in mix 4 because from mix 4 to mix 5 I added a small, gentle bell to the 2bus around 5k. ill recheck it later today but my ears have probably just gotten used to it from hearing it for a month
I think the verse vox sound muddy now - are you boosting around 200hz? I was thinking of just easing up on the high pass rather than overtly boosting.
Agreed - the snare has a really prominent 4-5k ātickā to it, whereas the kick has just a tiny bit of āpointā around 7-10k. That sound seems to work well in the verse and the sparer sections of the sogn, but the āpointā of the kick gets buried in the chorus, so maybe bringing up a little 4-5k on it might help for that part of the song.
I have to agree with Jon Jon there - the original mix is plenty biting. However, in Jon Jonās mix I am also hearing something happening in the reverb splashes behind the vocal that seems to be emphasising the sibilance in an unflattering way and sending it āover the edgeā. Perhaps you could try de-essing the reverb send, or even just pulling some highs out of the reverb.
I think these guitars might be adding to the sense of harshness. Taming the top and not high passing the crunch guitars as severely will give you more warmth and push in the chorus.
Jon Jon: I think your mix, as far as levels and dynamics go, is very good, and you did some interesting things with the production. Your treatment of the guitars in the bridge is much more interesting, for example.
I listened to your mix first, then the original, both of which were new to me. What immediately jumps out to me is the vocals on the original are more prominent in the mix, and are more intelligible also. I think the level of your vocals is appropriate, but in the original I can understand the lyrics on the first pass without feeling like the vocals are too far out front. That could be a conscious decision on your part to not make it sound quite as commercial as the original. I like the treatment of the guitars better on your mix, so overall itās very good.
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nothing much done on a conscious levelā¦more of a chasing my tail thing
my vox are using cla76 on āall buttonsā pushing 10 or more db of gain reduction at all times lol. I might back it down and bit and see what happens. fun stuff though
Mix 6, touching a lot of the points made