Bash this rock chorus hook etc

Bash this rock chorus hook etc
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#61

[quote=“Jon-Jon, post:60, topic:1486”]
there is a flip side to that. having crusty old assholes run off all the new blood doesnt exactly make for a healthy forum either does it??

its never the opinion presented, its the WAY its presented [/quote]
I get what you’re saying. The problem is that controlling the ‘way’ content is presented can render the entire thing useless. There’s no perfect solution, and in his defense, AJ didn’t break any rules by disagreeing.

[quote]
The way its coming across is that this is a “pro only” forum. Which is odd because pros wouldnt really need much feedback. [/quote] Pros hang out on this forum because of being able to share and discuss ideas, as its part of an artistic growing process. And some of the pros that are here have pretty limited geographic access to others in our line of work. For whatever reason (among many possible ones) that we pros set up shop here, I’ve always felt it’s provided a unique resource to the hobbyists. I dunno man. Just a thought.


#62

COULD be a great resource…unless its just an outlet for people to get their jollys by downtalking to others.

My issue now is…the “pros” have checkmated me so there is no real reason for me to post for at least a year. Maybe 1 year between posts. yeah, thats healthy

Why a year?

Well:

  1. I dont have a treated room or even studio monitors. I wont have them today or tomorrow either

  2. My vocals have been deemed “pitchy”. So, lets see, how long is that going to take to fix?? Probably a while.

So I guess I have to step aside lol. Sad because my 30 years of guitar playing might also be of some use to others, but if im going to be talked to like someone who just started music a week ago then its sort of a no go.

Thats where IMO the forum could be improved. Its just common sense. Damn, sprinkle a little sugar in with all the hemlock. You get people playing multiple instruments, singing, writing, learning mixing…and they have to be raked over the coals because they arent a total pro yet in ALL those areas?

Anyway, im ranting now

Peace, JJ


#63

Hey @Jon-Jon, for what it’s worth I’m in a similar boat to you. I mix on headphones because it’s the best I can do right now. And I’m far from an excellent performer. I feel like I learn a lot on this forum and that people are friendly and helpful. I understand what it’s like to get discouraged–I get discouraged like, all the time. I think that the biggest thing to remember is that there are no shortcuts. If your goal is to make music that’s 99% as good as your favorite music, it’s going to take a long time and a lot of hard work to get there. I know it’s frustrating to not be able to do it right now. I struggle with that as well.

And if you want to get better, the ability to hear feedback and make good use of it is so important. It’s nothing personal. The most useful feedback that I tend to get is the feedback that hurts when I first hear it. And then I let the hurt feeling subside, and take another look at the facts and realize that it was a big gap in my perspective.

Anyway, I just wanted to say I get where you’re coming from. It’s still worth making music, though. Have you looked into sites like Recording Revolution? He’ll tell you that you can mix on earbuds. :slight_smile: I tend to think he overplays it a bit, but maybe it’ll help you stay motivated.


#64

Well, in the end, reality is what it is. It isnt what we want it to be. Im not scared of harsh reality.

in the end I can either prove people wrong or not. I can either do what I set out to do or not.

I have done many competitive things my entire life from childhood on up. I never set out to do anything halfway. So I just decided to officially become a singer in early 2016. there is no notion in my head of me not becoming a great singer

The thing about feedback is…unless you really know the person, the feedback itself might not be Gospel truth. Ive had massive flamewars on guitar forums getting into discussions about modes which end up being long discussions of western musical history lol. Then a light goes off and I try to check on WHO it is im arguing with and I find out its some kid who can barely play. cest la vie

On the other hand its not strictly correct to say “its not personal”. It CAN be because dysfunctional people can type just like anyone else can. Think about Phil Spector pulling guns on people in the studio. Should that kind of nonsense be tolerated? Nope, sometimes you have to tell people to piss off even if they present themselves as some sort of pro.

One either quits or one doubles their resolve

I will order studio monitors today and then next time around someone will have to come up with some other reason to tell me that I will fail or that what i aim to do is impossible.


What should someone listen for when buying their first pair of studio monitors?
#65

Order? I would suggest visiting a Guitar Center or Sam Ash and taking a listen to them :smiley:

Give yourself at least 2 hours to play around with sets, because its gonna take your ears some time to adapt to the room. AB back and forth and test different sets over a wide range of material. Only bring stuff mixed and mastered by top notch studios. If you stream it, make sure you’re listening to youtube videos at the highest resolution possible.

If those minimum wage fuckers at Guitar Center tell you “um…sorry, our monitors aren’t connected to a source, so you’ll have to come back tomorrow”, bark up the ladder until you can find someone who will hook them up. You HAVE to listen to them…that’s the whole point :smiley:


What should someone listen for when buying their first pair of studio monitors?
#66

well we have already established that my ears suck…so…what would I be listening for?? lol


What should someone listen for when buying their first pair of studio monitors?
#67

things like this start to look interesting

http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/


#68

In the end, there will always be people that genuinely believe your music sucks. That’s true for all musicians/ music creators and artists in general.That’s what all of us have to be prepared for and accept.

I have songs that I’ve worked really intensely on for long periods of time and I thought they were great. Then I have other pieces of shit that I created and slapped together. You’d expect that people would gravitate towards the music that I laboured over and laugh at the shit that I slapped together…But, it doesn’t work that way. Sure, sometimes others see things like I’m seeing/hearing them but many times it’s the opposite. That’s why we, as musicians/ songwriters/ producers/ engineers need to step back from our music and practice being objective…It’s a skill that we need to learn. Everyone thinks their own music is somehow “special” because we lack objectivity. Just because someone thinks your music is great doesn’t mean it’s great and just because someone thinks your music sucks doesn’t mean it sucks. We all need to separate ourselves from our beliefs, at least temporarily when we listen to our own music…and in life in general.


#69

like I said, im mainly trying to learn the skills and get my ear attuned to make decent sounding mixes. of course thats on top of playing the instruments and singing and writing.

At my age, ill be 50 in 2 weeks, I fully understand that its impossible for me to make anything “popular”

And its all a moving target because even I myself dont EXACTLY know what I want to sound like. Nor do I have a clue what my voice is/will be capable of. Something in the rock/post grunge/power pop neighborhood

My faves are LedZep, VHalen, Yngwie, Hendrix. Then stuff like Whitesnake, AIC, Blue Murder, Ozzy, Priest etc etc.

They are similar but also radically different and one thing is true for them all. They all have stuff I love and stuff that I think is ridiculous

So I am just trying to continually up my game little by little. It all feeds on itself. You get better at singing and your songwriting gets better. You get better at mixing and it brings up limitations elsewhere etc

I have the stomach to post about 2 songs per year. cest la vie. in the meantime ill keep working


#70

You keep saying this, but nobody else has said that.Plenty of people mix on headphones. It’s hard to do. In the end, nobody really cares what you mix on as long as the end product sounds good. If you are mixing on headphones and the mixes aren’t translating, you have 3 options:

  1. Stop mixing on headphones
  2. Pretend like there is no problem and continue on
  3. Learn how to mix on headphones

It sounds like 1 isn’t an option right now, so you need to choose between 2 and 3. To me, 2 seems like a lame choice, so I’d go with 3. And part of 3 is not getting caught up on people’s tone of voice.


#71

yeah it actually gets said a lot. There is quite a bit of “if u dont do it the way I did, then it wont work…or you’re an idiot for trying”

and not just about headphones…that was just the topic this time.

last time it was probably using EZ Drummer. before that it was something else

seems the message pushed is, if we dont have a fully outfitted pro studio we may as well not bother


#72

Ok…now you’re asking a smart question. This is good. There’s a lot of misconceptions about how to choose your first pair of monitors on the internet. I’m going to take a stab at this but I’d also like spin off a new thread because I think others on here could have some valuable input.

I think the most important thing is detail. Listen and listen and listen. Then listen more. Spend an hour letting your ears adjust to what you’re hearing. Eventually you’ll start to notice differences you didn’t hear before. What you want is the balance, evenness, and clarity. This is why its important to reference with other peoples mixes.

Ask yourself, can I hear reverb and delay tails. When I listen to a kick…do I hear the difference in the decay, or when I listen to a snare, can I hear differences in the rattle of the strainer. How do the cymbals sound from one speaker set to another? Is there more definition in the bass guitar? Do I hear finger and fret noise that another monitor isn’t showing me? When I listen to a vocal, can I hear the breathiness, sibilance, and resonance more in one set of speakers than another? How about the guitars?

MONITORS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR RIG. They are more important than your computer, your interface, your plugins, and your DAW. You can’t mix what you can’t accurately hear. It doesn’t matter how amazing shit sounds on the way into your computer, because if you can’t hear it, you can’t mix it.


#73

I was being somewhat facetious. Obviously, as about a dozen people have pointed out, my mixing ears must not be too good yet. So I wouldnt even know what I am listening to. Same as when I bought my first guitar…I had no clue what i was getting but I had to start somewhere.

im looking at threads etc about monitors to see what the basic standard monitors are in my range.

Then we get into a whole other world of room acoustics. yaay


What should someone listen for when buying their first pair of studio monitors?
#74

That’s clearly not true. You can record and mix without monitors, (using headphones) but you can’t record without your DAW and plugins. You’re also giving bad advice IMO. The OP is struggling with the basic concepts of recording; spending money on monitors and room treatment is not going to magically confer basic recording skills upon the purchaser. What’s more, it’s only going to add to the frustration and despondancy once the purchaser realises this fact.

Monitors aren’t going to make someone sing in tune, write a good song, or realise when an element of the recording is completely missing from a mix.

http://audioundone.com/headphones-and-mixing
My honest opinion is that unless you’ve set aside at least £1500 ($2000) for nearfield speakers and acoustic treatment, then you’ll get more reliable mixes from a pair of top-drawer headphones—particularly if you’re able to hijack someone else’s nearfield system briefly from time to time to check the low end and stereo image. Mike Senior

Also, see:
http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/mixing-headphones

FWIW I do 90% of my mixes on cans, (unless the client wants to be present at the mix) and only use monitors for checking.


#75

I’ll give you my take JJ. I didn’t have a problem with the mix, the vocals or hearing any of the instruments. I think there’s a huge problem with commenting on stuff like this like we talked about in the chat box.

This is not meant to slight or disagree with the advice and comments you’ve already received. But, this is my take on all that I’ve read. The problems are, people judge what they hear based on what they THINK things should sound like instead of listening to the art that was offered. Let me tell you something man…I am one anal mutha. I got good ears and can hear two gnats getting it on in another room. (unfortunately) I get paid to rip people’s performances and mixes to shreds at least 6 times per week doing consultations alone.

There are three ways I listen to a mix.

  1. The music lover: If I hate the song, it usually makes things a little more difficult for me to process anything else. It’s been rare for me to actually hate something though. I try to find the art in everything unless it’s just plain bad. I dig your song as a music lover.

  2. The producer: I rarely listen and attempt to produce another person’s song in my head unless I am specifically asked. Listening and me injecting what I would do has ruined my listening experience in a lot of music. I have learned to accept something the way it was delivered. Whatever you got here, sounds pretty good to me as far as a bare bones sketch. It could definitely be a pre or a bridge in my opinion…or even a chorus. I just tend to go for more of a catchy hook. That’s just me, not telling you that you’re right or wrong or this isn’t a chorus. I just don’t think the part you played hit me hard enough as the chorus of the song. BUT…that doesn’t always need to happen either. Some songs…the pre-chorus may be the catchy part.

  3. The mix engineer: I dig the mix. I’m not just saying that to sound like a good guy and be the lone guy that disagrees with the others. I say that because who am I to tell you what colors or instrument choices to use in YOUR creation? It’s like telling Rembrandt or some other artist not to use that shade of red.

Who am I to tell you your drums aren’t right unless I can for sure tell you there are blatant errors in the sound that annoy me horribly. That is not the case. I have no problems with your vocals. I’ve heard 1000 times worse from a guy that sang with a little band called Nirvana and he inspired a generation. Horrible vocalist in my opinion…some crafty lyrics though in his defense. :wink:

The day I stopped being judgmental and listened to what someone had to offer, was the day I enjoyed music once again. I’ve gone through spells in the past where I couldn’t listen to some of those 60’s and 70’s bands because I hated the production so bad. Some really good bands too! Like I will always and forever, hate the snare drum to any Bad Company song. I will always hate the guitar sound of Steve Howe from YES. I’ll always hate the sound of Bob Dylan’s voice. But all three are killer song writers that have their place. I just was so lost in “that snare sucks, that guitar sound is lame, that bass sounds like it needs new strings”. Who gives a shit? Music is music. Do I like the song? If so, end of story.

Now granted, I’m no pushover. If I hear things that are blatantly wrong, I will tell you as well as tell you how to fix them. I’ll even show examples if need be so you always know where you stand with me. Do you know what I heard listening to this? It reminded me of the production on Ozzy’s Suicide Solution. I went back and read this thread after I listened…and low and behold, that was sort of what you were shooting for.

I think you nailed that quite well. The bass is present, I hear drums at all times, I hear good low end that isn’t rumbling or distorting, I do not hear hyper compression and excess dirt like everyone seems to use while thinking it actually sounds good. I don’t hear pitchy vocals that make me cringe. I’m a singer and can sing just about anything you can throw at me from Whitesnake to Journey to even Deep Purple with Gillan. I did a cover of Perfect Strangers that turned out pretty cool when I first built my new studio here. A little bass light, but it still turned out really good.

So I’m well aware of what good vocals and bad vocals are all about. Are there little spots where you could have maybe sang things a little tighter or a little more cohesive? Sure…but nothing stuck out to me where I thought you were out of key, annoying or “hey dude, stick to guitar…your voice blows chunks…and chunks is my dog.” This is a rough track for God sakes…just an idea at this point. I listened and respected it as such without trying to sound like I’m a know it all or someone trying to break your balls “just because I have this space to type here.”

I was in your position dude. Tired of singers choosing my destiny. So one day I started singing. Am I great? Of course not…but I sing in key, I always show up, no one sounds like me, and finally after doing it for almost 30 years, I’m actually getting it. All three of the labels I’ve been with liked my voice as well…so hey, it is what it is. You been at it since 2016 and just presented a sketch here…I say, win win and you’re on the right track. With this particular song, and I swear I’m not trying to earn brownie points…I’d not change a thing other than try to finish it.

As for the headphones and monitors thing…you’ll get different answers from people who have had success or failure using both. My answer to you? I have many sets of headphones here. I have always done a fair job using them, but never did a GREAT job I was happy with until I got good monitors and I tuned them for flat response using ARC by IK Multimedia. My entire world changed when I got that whole set up.

Good monitors, a sub, and correction worked wonders. I have never treated my B room where I do most of my online work and other mixing. Just corrected monitors with the sub. In my A room, we did a little room correction there but honestly, what translates there also translates the same in the B room and vice versa. So whatever we got going on, it works. LOL!

There are people that do really good mixes on headphones. I’m not one of those people. And quite frankly, I don’t want to be unless I have no choice due to living conditions etc. Music is so dull and lifeless to me in cans. When you get the right monitor set up and get everything just right, the listening experiences changes in ways I can’t describe. I had quite a few clients from the old RR site. One of them, who has become one of my best friends, came to my studio for a weekend to work on one of his songs.

He too has his own studio and is a good engineer. But the one thing he mention as soon as he sat in my chair was…“wow, I can now hear what I’m supposed to hear without struggling or second guessing.” He was truly blown away by this. You see man, people make this whole thing out to be a dark art. Mixing isn’t that at all. You need the right gear to give you the right sounds so you make the right calls.

Sure you have to know a little bit and know what constitutes a good sound and what doesn’t. If it takes more than 30 minutes to get a sound to work in a mix you either don’t know how to fix it, or the sound is bad. There’s nothing wrong with learning what good sounds consist of for recording too. Sometimes we think something will work, and it just fails. I’ve been there. Then there are times when something can’t be redone…and you HAVE to succeed. The challenge there is what teaches you and gives you experience. But from what I hear in your little piece here though, I think you have a clue what works and what doesn’t.

Could I bash you to help you improve on things? Any one of us could bash anyone including pro’s. But is there a need or a reason? The real question is, is there anything that I can offer that would help you? I’d say no because for what you have here, the idea is there, the playing is there and the production really does sound like that of an Ozzy record. I think that’s pretty cool man. Now, I could bash your brains in if I thought this should have been mixed to sound like a Hale Storm song. LOL! Yeah, you suck because this doesn’t sound like Sixx AM! LMAO! That’s just ludicrous, ya know? This doesn’t have “today” production and guess what, it doesn’t need it nor should it be judged as needing it. It sounds like it sounds and it’s a good sound in my opinion.

See, this is what I meant when I said “I judge for what it is, not what I think it should be.” I think all your stuff fit just right and it sounded good on all my speakers here. Trust me, if there were blatant issues that weren’t subjective, I’d tell you as I mentioned before. There’s just no reason for me to tell you any different than “nice job…this is a great start to what could be a good song. I’d like to hear a finished version some day.”

That’s not to go against some of the advice you received. Some of it was awesome…especially Jonathan’s advice on monitors. But I feel you’re in good shape with this song. At the end of the day, mixes by pro’s are ruined everyday yet people praise the producers. You can barely listen to some mixes on real monitors because they were geared more for ear buds. That still kills me.

You mix the way you mix. I don’t even reference anymore because at the end of the day, I want my mixes to be what I want them to be. If my ears hear dark, effected, heavy kick, light bass, or whatever else, that’s what I heard that time, ya know? If there are blatant mistakes like sub lows that are ruining the mix, harsh highs that are piercing to the point of my dogs cringing and the song just sounds like nails on a chalkboard, then for sure a few things need to be fixed. LOL! But anything else is subjective. Be the one people copy from…don’t be the one that copies. I can’t tell you the last time I referenced anything. To some, that is bad of me. To me, I’m happy with my work and so are my clients. I think I’m right where I want to be. :slight_smile:

One example though…AJ mentioned something weird on the toms. I noticed that too in your earlier mixes and was glad you backed whatever that was down on mix 5. That was the only blatant thing I heard that sort of didn’t sit well with me. Anyway, I’d like to see you do something with this song. And don’t be so hard on yourself with your voice and mixing. Quite a few people that I know would kill to be able to get that production as well as be able to actually sing. Keep up the good work dude!


#76

Thanks for the long thoughtful resposne

yeah, basically I just want to make some nice music to leave behind. I started off on guitar and I definitely sort of “backed into” singing…and bass playing…and now mixing.

I started playing guitar way back when in 1988, starting with 4 track cassette recorders and finally into digital 8 tracks but I sort of got out of recording altogether sometime in the early 2000s. Even at that I was never any kind of pro (obviously right?) on the digital 8 tracks. I didnt even know about real basic stuff like high passing blah blah. So my stuff from back then is atrocious…even more atrocious than what folks tell me im like now.

Anyway, for whatever reason I started back from scratch around 2014 and I had to go online and google stuff like “how do I get my music online” lol. DAW?? whats that? interface, huh??

So in late 2014 I started using the site wikiloops.com a lot. All I was doing was adding my guitar to other peoples drum tracks. Then I was getting pissed because no one would sing on them lol. And people would add bass and it was just horrible. Plus it got sort of old using the same drum tracks over and over. A few of them I wrote some great stuff on but after like 6 songs with the same drums it gets old.

But then naturally I started hearing the inevitable “your stuff is ok, but it sounds weird with no bass.” So somewhere in 2015 I bought a bass and I also got EZ drummer2 and had to start from scratch with it

Then long story short it got to where, as u mention, I was at the mercy of singers. Like id post instrumentals on fbook and friends and family would be look “I dont hear any words???” lol.

I finally got tired of begging others to sing on my stuff so in 2016 I started singing.

So my experience levels are currently:

guitar. almost 30 years
mixing with Reaper DAW <3 years
bass and EZ drummer, 2 years
singing 18 months, added to singing in the shower and with the radio forever lol

So it IS a bit foolish to expect myself to be a pro at all of those things…but I still do hehe. If others can do it, so can I. If burned out heroin junkies can make good music then I hope I can too.

So I see it as sort of an interlocking puzzle and pieces keep getting added. I had told myself “2017 is the year I put it all together”…or “2016 was singing, 2017 will be mixing”

I also mentioned, when I came to this site, that I wanted to have 3 songs FULLY MIXED and sounding PRO by spring. For whatever reasons it hasnt exactly worked that way. I didnt lay down any vocals for like 6-8 months until recently, instead focusing a lot on lead guitar and whatever. Time has a way of getting away from us. Add that to working a full time job etc and its a decent uphill struggle.

Also, I dont really have a clear vision for what id even DO with some great songs if/when I manage to finish them. If the only reward is posting them here to get destroyed then thats not allllll that motivating

Nor a clear vision of what kind of song vibe I want. Early Halen? Led Zep? Soundgarden? Chevelle? really far out vocal trip like Queen?

All of that being said, I still dont make excuses. I want my stuff to be great, not good, not ok

But as i said, its like an interlocked puzzle and mixing is such a huge key to it. What do people hear when they hear a song?? They hear a mix

But to get a mix, EVERYTHING else has to be perfect to start with. Then u can START trying to get a mix right. If even ONE thing is sub par, then the whole project essentially sucks. Even Paul McCartney didnt have to face that…he had a drummer and a producer and 2 guitar players and 3 other voices, plus studio musicians to back him up

It is what it is. There is the inevitable “well what should I spend my time on today??” Im off work today so (ignoring real life stuff lol) here are the choices:

  1. work on my pitchy ass singing
  2. spend x amount of hours researching and ordering monitors and look forward to the dozens of hours it will take to start implementing them
  3. write more guitar hooks, especially implementing bass guitar which I usually neglect
  4. actually, omg, work on my bass playing, learning some great Bob Daisley licks etc
  5. study hooks and methods of Halen, Zep, Ozzy, Dio, Hendrix etc. Why were they good?
  6. work on mixing all day. remixing stuff I already have
  7. Lead guitar. Havent practiced it in like 3-4 days. Cant get anywhere like that.
  8. Work on actual guitar TONES for maybe once in my life
  9. Unbox and use the MXR Phaser, Compressor, Vol/Expression pedal, Ravish Sitar pedal that have been sitting in my living room for like a month.

So thats a few things off the top of my head lol. Thats the challenge

Things sort of go in cycles:
–>start new song with a drum track (enthused)
–>add guitar parts (hey, this could be good)
–>add some vox (cool, this is exciting)
–>add some bass. (ok, got that over with)
–>Get it bashed. drums are wonky, singing pitchy, hook weak, bass is distracting, guitar is too this or too that. (despondency and frustration set in)

–> get pissed. get over it. maybe upgrade some equipment or software

–> start new song (enthused) repeat over and over

Whatever, I suppose no one has a gun to my head. In the past I have also spent vast amount of time playing competitive chess and playing golf. So it seems I am attracted to brutally soul crushing endeavors lol


#77

[quote=“AJ113, post:74, topic:1486”]
That’s clearly not true. You can record and mix without monitors, (using headphones) but you can’t record without your DAW and plugins. You’re also giving bad advice IMO. [/quote] That depends on how you read it. What I meant was that after all the basic needs of a recording scenario are met, monitors would take a higher priority in an upgrade than a DAW or plugin set. If I had Reaper and say the entire Fab Filter suite, and one usable microphone, I would be upgrading from headphones before upgrading the DAW or plugins.

I wasn’t suggesting that headphones are unusable, I was suggesting monitors were a logical first step, as @Jon-Jon, in order to have even made his recordings in the first place, appears to have everything else lol.

[quote]

The OP is struggling with the basic concepts of recording; spending money on monitors and room treatment is not going to magically confer basic recording skills upon the purchaser. What’s more, it’s only going to add to the frustration and despondancy once the purchaser realises this fact. [/quote] I wasn’t insinuating that it would magically solve it. I thought the problems we were looking at were partly his mixing technique? If Jon is willing to go buy a decent usable pair of reference monitors…I don’t see how it wouldn’t be in anyones best interest to give them a shot.

[quote]
Monitors aren’t going to make someone sing in tune, write a good song, or realise when an element of the recording is completely missing from a mix. [/quote]
Again, I agree with that…I had attempted to address the musicality aspects separately from the monitoring ones.

[quote]
http://audioundone.com/headphones-and-mixing
My honest opinion is that unless you’ve set aside at least £1500 ($2000) for nearfield speakers and acoustic treatment, then you’ll get more reliable mixes from a pair of top-drawer headphones—particularly if you’re able to hijack someone else’s nearfield system briefly from time to time to check the low end and stereo image. Mike Senior [/quote]
Hmmm. That’s interesting. I’m inclined to agree in the sense that a good accurate set of headphones sidesteps the need for extensive room correction. Never thought about it like that…

I think you’ll need more than $2000 though. If you’re ordering the materials new. Factor in tax and shipping for the room treatment…its not free. Yeah, I think its gonna cost way more than $2000, unless your room is stellar to begin with.


#78

[quote=“Jonathan, post:77, topic:1486, full:true”]

[quote=“AJ113, post:74, topic:1486”]
That’s clearly not true. You can record and mix without monitors, (using headphones) but you can’t record without your DAW and plugins. You’re also giving bad advice IMO. [/quote] That depends on how you read it. What I meant was that after all the basic needs of a recording scenario are met, monitors would take a higher priority in an upgrade than a DAW or plugin set. If I had Reaper and say the entire Fab Filter suite, and one usable microphone, I would be upgrading from headphones before upgrading the DAW or plugins.

I wasn’t suggesting that headphones are unusable, I was suggesting monitors were a logical first step, as @Jon-Jon, in order to have even made his recordings in the first place, appears to have everything else lol.

[quote]

The OP is struggling with the basic concepts of recording; spending money on monitors and room treatment is not going to magically confer basic recording skills upon the purchaser. What’s more, it’s only going to add to the frustration and despondancy once the purchaser realises this fact. [/quote] I wasn’t insinuating that it would magically solve it. I thought the problems we were looking at were partly his mixing technique? If Jon is willing to go buy a decent usable pair of reference monitors…I don’t see how it wouldn’t be in anyones best interest to give them a shot.

[quote]
Monitors aren’t going to make someone sing in tune, write a good song, or realise when an element of the recording is completely missing from a mix. [/quote]
Again, I agree with that…I had attempted to address the musicality aspects separately from the monitoring ones.

im pretty sure some of my current mixing issues ARE related to generally not listening to music thru any stereo speakers for at least the last 2 decades hehe. The part of my brain that calculates stereo separation etc is probably severely out of wack

if I get to the place where room treatment is deemed to be some sort of weak point then id say id be in a good place. i dont see that being any consideration for quite some time. I gotta get my mixes more in the ballpark before I fine tune anything

And I know this is the internet so naturally every word I just typed is wrong.


#79

If you want to see everything that way, I guess that’s up to you. Meanwhile, everybody here is actually trying to help, so you can do with that what you want.

Personally, I don’t think monitors are what you need right now. I was perfectly happy mixing on headphones for a long time. My mixes weren’t perfect, but they aren’t perfect on monitors either.

Just keep practicing. Move on to the next song. I think you’ve reached the point of diminishing returns on this sound clip. Glean whatever info you can and move on.


#80

just playing the odds, thats all. Some people like to “help” as long as they can pad their ego at other’s expense. We are all adults so it is what it is

Reminds me a lot of algebra class, I used to get a lot of partial credit when id get the answer correct but the teacher didnt like the way I got it. Nothing much has changed

And to all the cool people who genuinely try to help, much appreciated

yeah, actually your quick advice was the best for me in this thread, (everything was too loud, drums 2 quiet) leading to mix 3 which was probably as good as it got. Mix 5 was decent too but I think the vox got a bit low

I think monitors are a logical next step at this point, if nothing else just to give me something to compare against the headphones etc etc