I started this piece about 3 years ago - recorded a vocal and piano that had elements I really liked but heaps of flaws… It’s been in my ‘parking zone’ and I’ve tried heaps of cunning production ideas but then, several weeks ago, I decided to strip it right back again and just added some simple cello.
I’ve had a real challenge getting into my studio lately, life has seriously got in the way. No chance to dive into the mix competition despite my best plans and now, listening to this again, my ears are simply overdone.
Okay, I’m aiming for a simple acoustic thingummy… some fresh ears and feedback would be wonderful.
Another moody yet soothing masterpiece, Emma! Love that grooooaning cello. There’s a really nice closeness and intimacy in the vocal sound too.
If I really strain to pick out something, I might suggest doing a very small dip around 200 & 400hz on the master buss. The vocals get ever so slightly boxy in parts, and the piano is a tad woolly too. I say very small because it’s keeping some warmth in the sound demands walking a very fine line that it’s easy to step over either way.
very nice, I had heard that u could sing but thats the first song of yours Ive heard. Very nice. Im mainly a rock guy but im guessing maybe this comes from a sort of Judy Collins vibe? Also of course maybe some Bonnie Tyler influence
My ears arent good enough yet to comment on this or that frequency.
My comment would be that the chorus sort of hits without much fanfare. maybe the overall arrangement sort of lacks dynamics. Its like: intro…ok, verse…ok…then, wait…is that the chorus? Im one of those dumb rock guys that likes to be hit over the head with the chorus.
Of course there is no drums or percussion here to sort of lead the way so what else can be done to differentiate the chorus?
A couple ideas:
make the piano as dynamic as the voice. go overboard with the dynamics on the piano…from very quiet to much louder etc and also maybe play with some rubato a bit more. Why? Because essentially thats all we have here, 2 basic elements (not counting the cello). If the piano keeps the same basic volume level and also just sort of arpeggiates along, then IMO the chorus gets a bit short-changed
or
maybe make “Never could I have seen, NEVER EVER FORESEEN” much more defined as a prechorus. leave “never could I have seen” just like it is, but build “never ever foreseen” much stronger and then just go into the chorus without the small delay as it currently is…just go into it right on the main beat etc
So I guess I could see this song going in 1 of 2 directions. a) keep it a simple arrangement as is but use MORE dynamics in the piano…even as far as coming to a dead stop or something before the chorus so that even us dummies know when to sing along. That could be done without needing to build the chorus up more
or
b) give it a bit more “power ballad” treatment and build the chorus up more
Love it, Emma. I really like the intimate feeling and this lovely melody. I can’t even picture this as anything but stripped down as you’ve arranged it here.
My only nits to pick: on my 7506 cans, the cello is quieter than I’d like, the piano overwhelms it. Given that it’s the only other major instrumental element and is panned across from the piano, I find it leaves a “hole” in the sonic space. On the nearfields, it’s not as pronounced, but still there IMO.
That’s it though-- wouldn’t change anything else! I agree with Andrew, it is soothing…
@ColdRoomStudio Thanks heaps for checking this one out, I have done so much tweaking on it, all I could hear were the tweaks. The vocal dynamics were really extreme, HUGE variation with heaps of extraneous sounds and I had to do a lot of processing and automation while trying to still have a natural transparent sort of feel. Will definitely try those tweaks on the master bus - makes good sense to me… thanks!!!
@Jon-Jon
Thanks for checking this out Jon-Jon and your cool ideas. It’s an odd wee song for sure, just came to me one day, quite a long time ago when I was pondering the mysteries of love… and then I found some resonance for it while I was singing one day. So it was very unplanned, no click, just one solo take with voice and piano which really restricted what I could do with it.
@Chordwainer
Thanks Dave!! Yeah I hear you on this, it’s largely because the song was only voice and piano and then I literally threw the cello piece together while I was mixing it. I’d LOVE to have more cello but truly, the quality is not good enough to make it much louder… I’m a very poor player despite my love for the instrument so I’m thinking I’ll have to just leave it as is… the thought of re-doing it is too hard… will have a re-look at those levels though ta…
@Kakeux
Hey Mathieu, so nice to see you back in musicland
Thanks heaps for your words… yeah that’s me on the cello and it really is mostly awfully bad which is why you don’t hear much of it!! I’m just not a good player so I use it for a layer/effect only… hmmm, will have a look at the volume of the piano because it may be that the limiter tweaks I did have made it jump up a little more…
thanks again…
:beerbang:[quote=“holster, post:7, topic:782”]
I sure hope this ends up on vinyl!! Sooooo good.
[/quote]
@holster Yay… thanks so much!! I seemed to spend forever on tiny adjustments trying to clean this thing up and then my ears got all muddled up by all the things I’d done to try to achieve a sort of seamless simplicity … sometimes ‘simple’ can be so tricky to achieve.
Okay, I’ve had a re-visit and had a play with eq on the 2-bus… now that was interesting… I was fascinated when I played with that, have only added a tiny bit where you suggested @ColdRoomStudio, probably no-one would ever notice but to me, it just ever-so-slightly smoothed things a little and I hope that I have erred on the side of caution
Did a couple of tiny other things but I think I’m done… Will post the revision back up the top.
O, I dragged out a picture of the original vocal wav. file that I posted as a picture once in RR to demonstrate ‘dynamic vocals’. I think it is my most extreme example and Brandon was quite incredulous at the time, that I created such a fluctuating thingummy… Here it is :
Hi Friend Emma Ahhhh that voice I have missed. Nice and clear with minimal verb…good. You take me to a good place. Would you stay with me laughing…and hold me…yes. harmony sprinkled perfectly. Holy crap this is good. I have no couth:) love it love it love it You are welcome for all the mix help.
To be clear, I am not suggesting re-tracking! Only nudging it up by a dB or two. I think perhaps you are being a little hard on yourself, the playing is just fine!
Ahh Paul, you are very kind - thanks so much!!!
Lovely to hear from you… o and we are having a cool and windy summer so far… some more sunshine would be good - but I have to be careful what I wish for!!
@Chordwainer
thanks Dave!
Yeah the main trouble is that the cello simply doesn’t stand up to being any louder… it tends to get a bit squawky in places due to poor bowing technique and I’ve not been able to eq that out. At that lower volume I am concealing a multitude of sins…
Listening to tweaked version as I type. Incredible vocals Emma, closer and more intimately mixed than usual?
BGvox brilliant too - rapidly becoming a signature style! Is that only piano & cello? If so, you’ve managed to get a nice dose of low end in there. I don’t have anything to critique really at all - the cello sounds a bit buzzy in parts but not in a way that’s problematic. I think if anything, your vocals are getting better Emma.
Great job, nice almost lullaby like feeling to it, well done, yet again.
@Firedance
Thanks so much Firedance! This ‘simple’ song has been on the burner for years…
The one-take vox and piano had a vibe that i really wanted to keep, that in-the-zone thing… but there was so much lip-noise, piano-clunks and then the dynamics were really extreme as you can see from the pic of the wav file. I painstakingly automated it clean. No eq on the vox, but I used quite a bit of compression - which I NEVER used to do - to tame things. I’m using the punch compressor which I’m really liking these days for a number of things. Bought it a couple of years ago on someone’s recommendation, (it’s cheap!).
Another gem, thanks for posting it. I always get a quick trip to NZ when I hear you sing. On the cello, did you consider duplicating the track to have some eq flexibility to bring out the good stuff a touch more? Maybe sweep and find the area where you feel the bowing technique is bothersome, and dip that out a little bit while adding a little complimentary boost above and below the dip? I know you’re familiar with the technique, but I think you’re being a little too harsh on yourself on the cello, it adds a lot of interest and could be brought out subtly.
Interesting! Maybe it’s the compression I’m now hearing (intimacy/closeness) as opposed to previous compositions.
I’m intrigued and encouraged by the no EQ aspect. Really impressed with the way the vocals sound in this one - more modern perhaps? Again, compression possibly. Ah you know me - what would I know.
The vocal dynamics were really extreme, HUGE variation with heaps of extraneous sounds and I had to do a lot of processing and automation while trying to still have a natural transparent sort of feel. Will definitely try those tweaks on the master bus - makes good sense to me… thanks!!!
and then I found some resonance for it while I was singing one day. So it was very unplanned, no click, just one solo take with voice and piano which really restricted what I could do with it.
