We are stardust, we are golden

Music Makers Singers and Songwriters
#1

Over the last … 2 years lets say, I had a feeling that there would be this musical revolution of social commentary and protest songs welling up from the grassroots. “Indie”, as we now call it. While there have been a few things pop up on this site, it’s nowhere near my prediction or anticipation. Personally, most of my song ideas have been along these lines, though I have failed to bring any of them to fruition yet. I find this a curiosity, so I thought I would inquire to get other opinions, and generally discuss the “state of the nations” as it were.

As I understand it, there was an effort to discourage political discussion on this site in that time period, though it could potentially exist in the Backstage category (rarely used these days). But political songs were deemed wholly acceptable. I’m not suggesting a focus on politics per se, but more the state of being human in the modern world. What do we want? What do we need? What would a healthy (psychologically) world look like? And what would serve “we the people” in terms of governance, economics, and community. Doesn’t music concern itself with these things? It used to.

The thread title calls forth the Woodstock era and generation. A time of great upheaval and tumult. Liberal vs. Conservative, Anti-War vs. Pro-War, Pro Choice vs. Pro Life. Anti-Segregation vs. Pro-Segregation, ad infinitum ad nauseum. :slightly_smiling_face:
There were marches in the streets, slogans, sit-ins, be-ins, love-ins, and just about any other “in” you can imagine. Turn on, tune in, and drop out. Wow, man. :peace_symbol:

All that said, as I currently see it, there is a great divide in humanity that doesn’t get much attention. I think it goes way beyond politics BTW. Recently, a media/culture war has erupted ever since Joe Rogan did one of his podcasts talking about an emerging topic: “mass formation psychosis” (aka “mass psychosis”). Which “fact checkers” have conveniently dismissed as “disinformation”. :face_with_monocle: :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Basically, about half of humanity believes that benevolent leaders/overlords/authorities (formerly known as “public servants” :smirk:) have our best interests in mind, and are attempting to bring us out of a terrible plague. The other half questions what is really going on, and questions the official narratives we are being told we must believe. Or else!

What is the role of musicians and artists in this era? Carry on as usual? Songs about love gone bad, crying in our beer, or how life is like a box of chocolates? Please contribute your thoughts. Because, “we’re all in this together” (one way or another).

“We are stardust, we are golden, we are caught in the devil’s bargain,
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden.” - CSNY

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#2

Ask Dunning and Kruger what their opinion is ?
The internet is a dangerous place for people who google for quick answers to complex questions.

Musicians should follow the same level of caution when writing their songs in this era.

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#3

Stan, no one ever wanted to censor people from posting politically inspired songs. It was the out-of-control discussion we needed to steer away from.

Yes, and that’s why people write about it. Again, no one is suggesting we don’t. As long as the discussion stays relevant to the music.

There are soooooo many times in history where everyone from kings and emperors to oppressed slaves and servants used music to express themselves, protest, enforce the law, or start a revolution. I would say the reason is that music and politics are both so deeply embedded in the fabric of any culture, is ultimately politics is an opinion, and music a transcendent means to express it.

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#4

And feel free to post a SONG in any category here if you wrote or covered one.

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#5

Agreed. I don’t recommend anyone take the quick/complex avenue. This topic of Mass Psychosis is something I have been studying since the video below came out, about 5 months ago.

This video was made in collaboration with Academy of Ideas. They create videos explaining the ideas of history’s great thinkers in order to help supply the world with more knowledge, to empower the individual, and to promote freedom.

Then, Dr. Mattias Desmet, a psychology professor at the University of Ghent in Belgium, brought it further into the limelight. Yet it was Joe Rogan’s podcast, featuring an interview with Dr. Robert Malone (the inventor of mRNA technology), that brought it widely into public awareness. Malone was spring-boarding off of Desmet’s premise (and giving credit), and giving his own observations of it. As soon as the Rogan podcast went viral, the fact-checkers (funded by Facebook and globalists like George Soros IIRC) and MSM jumped into action to try to control the narrative. Rogan’s viewership seems to be exceeding MSM these days. Perhaps people believe he’s being more honest? :wink:
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Good thing they haven’t, historically, or we’d have a very diminished assortment of music available. Each person can only speak their own truth. Their own experience. And it’s usually the rebels that deeply touch our sensibilities.

#6

I did understand the differentiation of political conversation vs. political songs. I believe it was the emotionally charged arguments around political discussion that fell into disfavor. If people can have the discussion respectfully and agree to disagree, there might be no problem, but when that becomes too challenging then that’s when it appears out-of-control IMO. When the same opinions are embedded in lyrics and musical composition, maybe that comes across differently, I don’t know. I guess I thought it was all Freedom of Speech. :slightly_smiling_face:

Well said! The study of how music has influenced culture and politics, and vice-versa, is fascinating. In some ways it helps explain history. Now, if history could quit repeating itself like a broken record … that would be fantastic. :joy:

#7

Yes, I have been looking to do that if I bring one to fruition. I have been inspired at times, and scribble some lyrics, but have yet to engage in a full composition that reflects the Zeitgeist. I see it as much broader and more expansive than just politics. More like the human condition, and reflecting on history and how it does repeat itself. Speaking of which, Mass Psychosis is not a new phenomenon. Any student of history can see parallels if they are willing to look. But then maybe that’s political discussion. :zipper_mouth_face:

#8

Dr. Malone was a pioneer in early mRNA experiments where it was discovered that the technology could be used to create protein mappings and thus immunity from viruses.

I couldn’t imagine a scenario where I would take Joe Rogan’s opinion over trained experts.
Maybe other’s have a higher opinion of him, but I personally do not.
As for whether or not the Google educated masses believe Mr. Rogan over thousands of educated professional scientists, that is their right.

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#9

Yes, thank you for the specificity.

I think Joe has a lot of wisdom, and very good interview skills. I think the idea is to bring on specialists or experts in their field (generally) and turn it into a good interview, and help inform the viewers. I have seen a variety of people on his show, and he seems to push the envelope for guests and topics that might not get on other programs, for whatever reason. It takes skill IMO to interview specialists and draw out their knowledge and opinions, while doing it in an entertaining way that people want to watch for significant periods of time.

I don’t think of it as believing Joe, or even his guests, or believing any other content/program for that matter. It’s ideas to consider, question, and challenge yourself to do your own research if you’re so inclined. Listen to lots of people and see who makes the most sense, and who has the most compelling arguments. Then decide for yourself, but yet continue to pursue more evidence and more connections.

#10

Gut feelings (who makes the most sense) can be a very dangerous criterion in areas of highly technical science and lead people down a poorly chosen path. I am an avid consumer of ideas from all sides of the aisle, but when it comes to choosing my path, Joe Rogan (and his guests) do not and never will make the final cut of people who offer sage advice.

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#11

Nope. Misleading characterization. Nobody believes our leaders are benevolent. Just as nobody should believe this “other half” has noble intentions. Basic societal hygiene was not a controversial issue until recently, when someone realized it could be yet another effective grievance to generate useful animosity and thus funding for certain causes. If one wants to study mass formation psychosis find a really angry person and get them to explain, The War Against Christmas or Critical Race Theory. They are all worked up about what? Since I could read (age 4) I opened Sports Afield and learned “they are coming to take our guns!” 60 years later I find a country where the #1 selling gun (in the millions) is an assault rifle and still they cry “they are coming to take our guns.” We seem determined to march toward a civil war with no higher cause than we really don’t like each other.

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#12

“Making sense” is usually more of a logical/rational mind exercise IMO, though I don’t discount the value of Intuition (gut feeling) to tell us if something seems legit or fishy (Bullshit Detector). Humans are complex beings. We use both of those faculties all the time, as well as instinct (fight or flight), for making all kinds of decisions - both consciously and unconsciously. Just because something is “highly technical science” from “educated professionals” doesn’t mean it is immune from corruption and political pressure. Virtually all science these days depends on funding, which is money coming from funders of all sorts. Some being foundations with ostensibly lofty goals, but nearly always tied to some sort of agenda. Don’t tow the line and … no more funding. I think most reasonable and intelligent people can understand this. Especially when a team lines up on one side of the field. Random chance, or calculated effort?
And given the emergence of “Cancel Culture”, you better expouse the “correct” opinion or your career could be over and your reputation smeared. All factors to consider when someone advocates for a certain position on anything.

Also, some of the MSM headlines seem to be “270 doctors and scientists” or “270 medical experts”, which might compel a lazy thinker to believe that this headline means legitimacy, but it looks like only 87 of the signatories are actual medical doctors … and then how many of those are actually psychologists or psychiatrists who might even be qualified to address a complex topic like “mass psychosis”? Even given that, an outraged mob of “educated professionals” does not constitute “Truth”. Any reasonable person can consider that the scenario mentioned in the Rogan interview, that a well educated population in Nazi Germany came under the sway of mass psychosis, may have some merit. And this is not a swipe at some politician calling them a Nazi … this is along the lines of the phrase in every Holocaust Memorial around the world - “Never Forget”. If you think modern educated ‘sensible’ people are not capable of atrocities, think again.

From the father of modern Depth Psychology:

“Indeed, it is becoming ever more obvious that it is not famine, not earthquakes, not microbes, not cancer but man himself who is man’s greatest danger to man, for the simple reason that there is no adequate protection against psychic epidemics, which are infinitely more devastating than the worst of natural catastrophes. The supreme danger which threatens individuals as well as whole nations is a psychic danger. Reason has proved itself completely powerless, precisely because its arguments have an effect only on the conscious mind and not on the unconscious. The greatest danger of all comes from the masses, in whom the effects of the unconscious pile up cumulatively and the reasonableness of the conscious mind is stifled. Every mass organization is a latent danger just as much as a heap of dynamite is. It lets loose effects which no man wants and no man can stop. It is therefore in the highest degree desirable that a knowledge of psychology should spread so that men can understand the source of the supreme dangers that threaten them. Not by arming to the teeth, each for itself, can the nations defend themselves in the long run from the frightful catastrophes of modern war.” - Carl Jung, The Symbolic Life

Reminder: Thread topic - protest songs. :nerd_face:

#13

I’m glad to hear you say that. I didn’t think anyone really believed it, but that’s how it might seem at times - Deus ex machina.

Perhaps we should also make a case for Mass Media Psychosis? :wink: Yes, the media whips people up into a frenzy of outrage, fear, anxiety, etc. No matter which ‘side’ you may be on, or what your SJW cause may be.

A profound statement indeed. Perhaps not so far from the truth though. Unconscious animosity then pushes the conscious mind to find rationalizations to de-humanize “the enemy”. From there is where Mass Psychosis can take over, per my comments in the previous post.

But it’s perfectly okay for Uncle Sam or Mother Russia to launch multiple megaton nuclear weapons against another population, vaporizing millions of citizens in a few seconds in the name of “it was self-defense”? Not to mention the very real danger of accidental and misinterpreted-data launches. I think we need a little perspective here.

When I entered kindergarten (age 5), my school had a “Fallout Shelter” sign on the front of it. Multiple signs actually. I have been living under the threat of nuclear fusion annihilation all of my life, from multiple governments. Another Mass Psychosis? (Holocaust 2.0)

Reminder: Thread topic - protest songs. :nerd_face:

#14

Just an example of what I have been seeing at the disillusion and confusion occurring all around us. The emotional content is a great resource for protest songs BTW.
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#15

Some of the best music in my lifetime was written in protest of what was going on around us at the time. I think things have gotten quite different in how this is currently approached. First, protest music was played on the radio; CSNY was mainstream at the time Woodstock was being played. I wonder if it would even make the radio today.
I also think that we are demographically different now too. Protesting against the government, or the Viet Nam War, or racial inequality, etc., didn’t get divided by party lines. We seem to want to blame one side or the other now, so there doesn’t seem to be a unified singular group or movement.
There’s probably plenty of protest music out there, but the state of the music industry is so different now you really have to search for it. We seem to be much more likely to be on one side of the fence or the other in every situation instead of part of a united front.

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#16

Yes the music industry is quite different than back then, no question. On the division aspect, I would generally agree with you, especially the last few years. However, recently the veil of mass formation seems to be thinning. People are waking up to the narratives they have been sold, and as more and more speak out, others find their own courage to do so. I certainly hope we will start to see more common ground as this emerges, so we can agree to disagree on some things, but realize our humanity is the key element. I have seen several things the last few days, it seems like a shift in the Zeitgeist. The video below was very powerful, and I believe Whoopi Goldberg spoke out on The View as well. This video is Bari Weiss (liberal/progressive) with Bill Maher last Friday. She uses terms like “catastrophic moral crime” and “It’s a pandemic of bureaucracy!” I prefer “Crimes Against Humanity”, but I’ll take her speech any day. It’s not a protest song, but serves as a protest nonetheless. On national media no less.
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#17

1965 I was a hs junior

Eve of Destruction

Barry McGuire

The Eastern world, it is explodin’
Violence flarin’, bullets loadin’
You’re old enough to kill but not for votin’
You don’t believe in war, but what’s that gun you’re totin’?
And even the Jordan river has bodies floatin’

But you tell me over and over and over again my friend
Ah, you don’t believe we’re on the eve of destruction

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#18

That’s how I felt on Monday, with the Ukraine ‘escalation’ rhetoric. So far it seems like a nothing-burger. So I guess you graduated HS in The Summer of Love, whilst the ‘land war in Asia’ tarried forth. :pensive:

Speaking of CSNY and Joe Rogan, Neil Young done cut his royalties in his spat with Spotify over the Rogan “misinformation”. His form of protest I guess. He should have written a protest song, posted it on Spotify, made the royalties off the song while getting his message heard. Old Neil has a Heart of Gold, but maybe should check if he only had a brain. I guess he’ll have to go hang out with his Cinnamon Girl to calm him down a bit. :slightly_smiling_face:

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#19

Neil I always thought the “old man” had a “heart of gold” Next thing you know he will be takin a slow boat to China and never again be “rockin in the free world” kertunk

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