I think drums can be done well in any room with the right know how. For example, if you came to me with a specific drum sound, I think I could accommodate. From the drums themselves to the tuning to the room ambience. Do you supply the kit or do I? Do you supply the drummer or do I? I've had people present me with drum sounds and ask if I could replicate. I've come super close or nailed them spot on each time.
The orchestra thing.....again though, impulses are amazing. Sure, a good room for both drums and an orchestra can be beneficial. But I think with the tools we have today, with the right know how, you don't have to spend $1200 a day just because you can. That's all I'm trying to say.
I agree 100% there. I'm not really trying to argue anything with you, man. I'm merely trying to say we can do some pretty incredible work these days without spending huge amounts of money. I'm so meticulous with creating room within a room effects, it's become a bit of a special sauce for me.
Agreed there too which was what I said. Not all, SOME rooms. Citing a single instance is better than no instance at all. I sat in on the audio editing sessions of a band that created crap in a pro studio. Part of it was the engineer, part the sound was not right for the album, part was the room was not right for the album. This was mentioned to further illustrate my point of "just because it is, doesn't mean it DOES."
I don't take that as mean at all. It's a legit question. I'm no Ocean Way and have never claimed to be. What I DO claim is, I can accommodate just about anyone if I have to. I've never failed to deliver something someone needed. Whether they be pro, semi pro or amateur, people come to me with a vision. They come with sounds in hand that they wish to achieve.
I have to nail them by any means necessary. That sometimes means more time spent, going through a million samples, various mic's, placements, heads and if there is something specific that can or needs to be done in a room from one of my colleagues or partner studio's, I DO have the means to deliver the goods. We network with and partner with several studios in the area if or when we need something that I may not be able to provide. But that said, I just about always can give a person what they want/need from our two studio's. If we can't get it right (which has never happened) we're still covered. All I do is call my buddy Drew Raison at Philly sound or Robby G at Viscious and I use the place or send the client to them.
.I think you missed the point. When you strip a sound out of a module....whether it be East/West, Kontakt, BFD or Superior drums....the sound itself is nothing special. As a matter of fact, most of the sounds are pure shit without the impulses used to enhance them. My point is...I can take a sound and mic it and then impulse it and I can get the same result. Want room mics separately, no problem...we have time control as well as pre-delay etc with room control unlike digital verb. I'm simply saying, some of the killer sounds today don't even come from real time percussion. When you strip back all the stuff going on in the sound, it's just a sound that anyone can get with a mic. It doesn't sound like it's been specially processed or tri-mic'd etc. Add in impulses using different rooms and timing and you get something so similar, only guys like you may notice. And if you do, who cares? I don't try to impress other engineers or sell them on my theories. That's not meant to sound harsh nor is it meant for you to take personally....I'm saying, in general, guys like us/you/other engineers don't pay my bills. I don't have to sell you on anything, I just need to deliver to my clients and I always do. That's what matters most at the end of the day.
The hands of someone that can run both consoles that also knows how to mix. I trained on an SSL, but I'd be lying to you if I told you I mastered it. I've done more work on the SSL plugin and NEVE console plugs than the real things. You don't get much time in school. That said, I look at it like this Jonathan...
Eq is going to eq. SSL eq's, as you and I have established in past conversations, are a little harsh. But to me, an EQ is an EQ. You adjust it until it sounds right. Compression is just that unless you get the characteristics of a tube compressor, right? The circuitry is the circuitry. Pre's are the pre's....do you run them hot or not depends on the console as well as the material. I've always hated the sound of hot SSL pre's. I prefer the NEVE.
Signal passes through and you mess with things until you get the sound in your head. To me it's cut and dry, Even if I knew nothing about an SSL or a Behringer and did a song on each. I'd be willing to bet the mixes would be good other than some different colors used. I mix the way I mix....I hear tones the way I hear tones. I compress until I hear consistency without the loss of dynamics. All the rest is coloration and subjectivity, is it not? In my world, I sincerely hope what we would hear would be "different" not necessarily "better". I'd feel much better with that result over hearing "dude, you smoked that Behringer with the SSL and rightfully so." That would be the expected outcome....but I'd hope for the opposite. I'd want both toe sound great with some coloration differences.
I'm in the less is more camp. I don't do 100 things to create my sounds anymore with racks etc. I create a sound at the source. That source doesn't get printed until it's the sound I want. That sound once in my PC, is not going to change drastically. Neither will any of the other sounds I printed. Other than subtle eq sculpting, and a few other little things I do, I'm gonna be up an running with a tight mix in 4 hours because the sounds are there from the start. The console and gear post print are going to enhance, not completely change the material. So for someone like me, I'd probably get the outcome I was looking for if I used both consoles. I'd be totally happy with that.