This acoustic demo is just awesome, I know you might not like this comment because of all the hard work you’ve put in the production of the “full” arrangement, but I seriously think I prefer listening to the demo… It has an authenticity you can find nowhere else, and the song is still catchy like that. And even more now that we know the story behind it, the “human” touch and the bluesy side are really fitting.
I think you should include both version on the album, the demo could be a bonus track. Or maybe record the demo again, if you can manage to get the same spontaneity. It’s really good!
I vote for the acoustic version too. I know that goes against what you’ve been working towards for a long time but l don’t think you would have posted it if you didn’t feel that it is special.
I’m a car buff and been to a lot of car shows with incredible gleaming works of mechanical art. But the last few years we’re seeing ‘patina’ and unrestored cars getting all the attention. Like Jim Morrison said: " Love hides in the strangest places."
Perfection in many aspects. Nicely done!!
If I were to nitpick, heard a few minor translation issues on mono speakers. Also Mix might have a wee bit too much width which makes it a bit thin sounding in my car stereo. Likely preference based. I like my blues gritty lol. Though this is great as is. A flair of modern touch but not overdone.
Overall sounds great in a treated listening environment. Might not need any tweaks from a mixing perspective.
Amazing! I had very similar recurring anxiety attacks for years after quitting. I remember having to sit in my old car (with doors that didn’t lock) in a back alley at 2am on a Saturday morning, waiting (sometimes an hour or more) for my bone-lazy cleaning partner to show up so we could enter the store together (You were only allowed one entry). I remember sitting there seething, because I knew I would have to work 3 x as hard to cover the lost time, because we had to get the work done regardless in time for the staff who came in at 8am. What an inconsiderate, lazy mongrel he was! Being a timid 20 year old at the time, I said nothing, of course!
Haha, thanks Paul - I think you are the king of that world, though!
I do like writing. I have my Dad to thank for that. Even though he had very limited formal secular schooling, (well at least, only as much as me) he had a real love of language and literature, and he definitely instilled that in me.
They’re everywhere, really - you just have to ask and listen!
Haha, I wondered if I would get that response! Yeah, I actually do like the acoustic demo too. If nothing else, it proved to me that the song works. The guitar and vocal test is always a good test of whether a song has any substance.
Not a bad idea. I have to say, the thought had crossed my mind. Thanks for the encouragement - I might try it!
Thanks Ingo - yeah, there is definitely room for both styles of production. Without a third party producer, it is much harder to do the stripped back thing. You really need a situation where someone else can judge whether you truly have lightning in a bottle, and just how far you should or shouldn’t go with polish and gloss.
Thanks Michelle - I don’t know about perfection, but I appreciate the encouragement nonetheless.
Thanks for that. I haven’t put any stereo widening on it. Everything is pretty much a mono point source, which is how I prefer to produce. There might be a few elements panned 100% L & R that might get diminished somewhat in mono.
Cool - Thanks for your input and impressions - much appreciated!
That’s always a tough question. It’s different if a label tells you who you have to use, or you can afford to hire a name with a history that you like.
Question: Do you ever use midi for keyboards or other stuff?
I remember that you said you planned to replace those with real drums and that certainly makes sense, the drumming on Meandersaur was excellent. As well as the rest of the album, a masterwork really, the variety of guitar sounds, rhythms and styles within a classic rock context is amazing really. I did enjoy that and I shouldn’t make any nit picks because there are none really.
I do have some questions, and if I’m just misunderstanding or just being inappropriate please ignore this. I notice some small snatches of keyboard sounds amongst the beautiful guitar work and it seems like there are lots of places where this could be expanded to your advantage. This would never occur to me hearing one or two songs but when you assemble an entire album and listen to it certain things jump out. The vocals for instance are top notch but except for possibly some of the backgrounds you are the only vocalist; since you have access to other skilled vocalists would you consider including some more variety there?
Your guitarwork is stunning but you rely a lot on strat sounds and triplet pull-offs, some nice melodic Paul work would be welcome to my ears, and as we have said here in this thread that I am derailing, maybe some acoustic as well?
It seems you don’t want to include other musicians except for drums which perhaps you are forced to?
Well I certainly hope I haven’t alienated you because that would be really unfair on my part because as I have said, you do great work and you certainly don’t need my advice!
I like using keys for texture, and I know I can make up good parts - I’m just not a keyboard player, so I don’t focus on that. My sister is a wonderful piano player. I wanted to get her to play on the new album, so I got her over to do a session. Unfortunately, nothing of any real value came out of it… not because she couldn’t play anything decent, she simply didn’t have the time to devote to coming up with something.
I know lots of vocalists much better than me. I have two nieces for example, who have wonderful voices. One of them has star-level vocal charisma and ability. I’d love it if I could get her to sing on my stuff… but she is simply not that interested in recording vocals. Believe me, I’ve tried and it usually ends up in a similar experience to my sister. You spend a lot of time and don’t come away with anything usable.
Well actually I use my Strat and Duesenberg about equally - they do actually sound quite different (to me at least). I don’t own a Les Paul. As far as the acoustic comment goes… ahem… maybe re-check out 2:47- 3:11 in the song?
My guess is that you’re intimating that I should employ another guitarist who plays differently perhaps? Other players (besides drums) on the album? I’m certainly not averse to the idea. I used other players occasionally on my last album.
However, let me explain my situation and experience:
If I get someone else to play on my music, they will be someone I know in person and am on the same page with musically. That would most likely be someone I have played live with and who truly “gets” where I am coming from musically. My experience as a band player is that, unless that kind of understanding is there, the end product will be diluted rather than enriched… and that kind of understanding is pretty rare. What’s more, even If that person would be willing to contribute their playing to the project for free, I would feel somewhat obligated to pay them…
…Or it would be a session musician I would pay to play (as I do with the drums).
I know it’s a popular idea these days, but I simply don’t believe in getting strangers to collaborate for free on my music for the reasons stated above. It creates all sorts of uncomfortable expectations, especially if the parts they contribute are not suitable or up to scratch. I would rather pay a session player a fair rate. Then it is my choice to use the part or not, and there is no resulting awkwardness.
The fact is, my funds are limited. The session drummer I’m using is extremely good yet affordable. But that is definitely as far as I can justify stretching my budget.
Not at all! As you’ve probably guessed, I have very definite ideas about my music, so I hope my frank replies don’t alienate anyone either!
Interesting comments about collaborations, it might even be worth a thread in its own right.
I totally understand where you’re coming from. For me, even though I’m not serious about my music (meaning I don’t have any plans to promote or sell it), it’s already quite hard to invite other musicians to collaborate. Just like you said: it is actually rare to find someone who share the same musical views or who can simply understand what you’re after. If I ever come up with an album that I want to “officially” release, I’m pretty sure I would have the same approach as you have.
I first listened to the acoustic original this morning, and I was struck by how angstfully melodic it felt, It had been a week(?) since I’d listened to the electric version, and although quite intense, I didn’t remember it as being so angstful.
So I relistened to it, and this time it sounded more gut felt to me, fresh after the acoustic. What I think happened is the bare bones treatment is so much easier for the mind to attend to, its details heard are much more basic. I think I heard/noticed them for the first time. And when I now listen to the big production my brain maps it over that acoustic roadmap. So I believe not only include it on the album, put it first or near the beginning, then when the big production final track comes up you have implanted the acoustic information in their subconscious and added a wow factor.
It takes more than talent to collaborate for sure.
I’ve often thought that most famous bands motivated talent with money, which most of us don’t have. It is part of the ethos of the indie musician and contributes to the product we put forth in the end.
It is hard and rare, and precious. And also, it is hard to bend one’s own musical views to those of others. The best collab is when the collab ends up surprising you with what it has become in a good way, something you know alone you would never have done.
Some songs we make are sort of set in stone in our minds, and their future is fine tuning their features. Others are more unformed, more general stabs at an idea, and I think those are often the best to collab with. I’ve shared just lyrics, just a rough hook, sometimes entire complex arrangements or just a basic track, and depending on who you find who wants to collab, you might get lucky and have astounding results you alone would never have achieved.
I think you have to find those people when they are musically and emotionally ripe for your projects, which is a miracle but does occur. I personally have had such experiences, including with @ingolee and @Stan_Halen at IRD, and it has been rewarding and as yet unfinished, but I do feel we all share the vision that will get us all the way there.
But it is not within our own power to get people to do their part, unless we pay them within our budget, which is probably less than they deserve, but I often dream of a site like IRD, so rich in talent, somehow enticing everyone to produce a joint project/album like a supergroup, like a side project that showcases everyone and becomes a tour de musical force in the annals of music history, beyond the little clique here, up there with Led Zep and Brittney Spears, where the world will say, yeah, this was one of the first times a band was formed from an online web site, and now other sites have been trying to do the same.
And that sounds great! I was thinking of having something like the second version you posted of the current song which is all acoustic. Could be a nice contrast, I always liked how Led Zeppelin went from Marshall thunder to acoustic mellowness.
Thanks for explaining your thoughts and approach, makes perfect sense and gets a great result. I do think you could have a complete stranger with different ideas add just a solo on a different instrument or even co-write a song from a remote location, lots of artists do that and it avoids that situation where you all have to sit around and burn valuable time with nothing to show for it Agree up front that the effort is done on spec with no obligation. Just a thought.
Sometimes, when there is a lot of comments, I fee hesitant to make a comment for the fear of the thread becoming a “pile on” if there seem to be more suggestions than just compliments. This song is a really good song and I think the suggestions are just a looking for ways to tweak it to even better, but it is all very good as is.
My question is are you playing all of the instruments on this song? And is the drums a midi like Superior drummer or similar? The reason I ask is that I ask is the thing that strikes me about the song is that I don’t get the feel of individual members in the band. When I listen to John Mayer, I can almost feel each person who is playing each instrument on his album. he uses different members at different times, and you can feel the changes in the songs.
And if this is all you, when you do a final recording, do you use other musicians or will you be the only one doing the final recordings?
Wow, thanks for your insights, Steve - great ideas!
Me too. Over the Hills and Far Away is one of my favourites of their’s in that respect. One day… one day…!
Hi James - Yes
Steven Slate Drums 5
That’s probably because it isn’t
I agree - It would be very nice to be in John Mayer’s position, wouldn’t it?.. but I’m just a home studio nobody, so as much as I’d like it, I don’t think Pino Paladino, Steve Jordan or Eric Clapton will be taking my calls any time soon.
I explained my situation in this post:
Thanks Dave - Yeah, I haven’t put anything on Fakebook or Instascam for a while now, so I thought it was about time to expend some effort.
For those curious about what Dave is talking about, here it is - A real-time, live-recorded (in the studio, with 2 camera angles which was supposed to be 3 except, my phone ran out of memory ) acoustic geetar solo!:
Well John Mayer has his albums recorded, mixed and mastered by the very best engineers: Many Marroquin, Chris Galland, Michael Brauer, Bob Ludwig, Greg Calbi… So yeah, it’s safe to say that you generally have a great sonic experience when listening to his music. I do have him well placed in my mixing reference playlist.
Yeah while I don’t enjoy his music or style, there is no doubt that JM definitely works with the best in the business.
As I see it, one of the big issues we have as home recording guys and gals is lack of a 3rd party producer - even moreso than a lack of other instrumentalists or mixing expertise.
Interesting topic that. Would you want a producer? What would you want a producer to do, you seem to have everything covered pretty well on your recordings I think, although I guess that depends on what your goal is?
It is something rarely talked about in home recording world, as we tend to get hung up on all the technical minutiae of recording.
To me a producer’s most valuable contribution is his/her ability to bring some objectivity to the artist. That is the reason I come here to get my stuff critiqued.
You definitely get objectivity here , however the difference with having a producer is, instead of 100 opinions (some of which may be very valuable and informed, some not so much, perhaps), you get one informed and focused opinion from someone who (hopefully) understands the artist’s goals and intentions.
Being a timid 20 year old at the time, I said nothing, of course!
) acoustic geetar solo!: