MUD is interesting me… in particular, I’m becoming increasingly interested in the demarcation between MUD and MOOD.
Clearly there are strong opinions on the definition of mud…
I’m suggesting that anything described as ‘mud’ is essentially a very loose construct and open to diverse definitions and interpretations. The more I’m playing around with layering sound, the more I’m noticing more subtle sonic veils and deliberately exploring those boundaries.
I love playing around with eq and shaping sounds within a mix and absolutely accept the concept of MUD, I guess I’m just questioning the assumption that it is a fixed entity… a universal truth… the more I think about this, the sillier it seems…
As far as my experience goes, which isn’t that far I guess you can divide it in a few category’s.
With the music I’m currently focussing on (metal) its getting clearer and clearer to me what mud means Its actually bloody obvious when some one points out you still have some, and you go back for another listen and say, damn, you’re right. It are very dense mixes so it gets clear why its obstructive and to not much use.
In some genre’s it can be pretty cool to work with very heavy bass sounds, almost clipping ( or seemingly clipping. compressor distortion maybe? ). But with good mixes the sound is still in your control. You let it go as far as YOU want, so I guess that a mix where you lost a bit of the control in the bass directory it could translate in having mud or something. frequencies that fight to hard with each other. I guess you cant push ALL the frequencies and still have a clear mix ( hence mud ) but that you have to make dissensions on what band’s you’re going to push, and what bands you’re going to diminish to compensate and prevent mud
Not sure if this makes any sense, but since talking about stuff, even if your quite new, helps you get knowledge, I thought I’d try it So please bash my thoughts if they are way off.
Oh my old friend mud. We are definitely NOT strangers.
You can desire (and achieve) a certain throb or almost tuba like pulse or anchor without a whooshy wump but I find it difficult. It can be a fine line between an experimental bassy wall of sound and unpleasant bloatedness.
I have absolutley no advice other than IME, 120 to 220 (ish) hz should be very carefully considered - you can often get away with pads in this region but generally everything else will need addressing, especially piano, bass and acoustic guitar.
Leaving bass to actual bass (or cello or whatever) and limiting frequency overlap where at all possible is a big thing.
Having said that, early Black Sabbath was arguably swimming in mud but I can’t imagine it any other way.
Is slow heavy trip hoppy stuff muddy? Maybe, but it maybe needs to be.
Nine Inch Nails have certainly gotten a bit dirty with their synths - or have they?
If you’re in a muddy mood, anything goes. But I do think it’s difficult to do “dark” without a bit of mud.
(Sorry, old joke for the Recording Review veterans among us)
But seriously folks, I have the same issue. That 100-300 Hz range is a constant source of problems for me. I am very conscious of what goes on there and spend significant attention on it, but invariably get something wrong and need to revisit it, usually more than once in terms of Bash iterations. A real blind spot for me, apparently…
If it works do it. And that applies to mud. As long as your mudding things up intentionally and for the purpose of evoking a vibe then muck away my friend. 2 things though - if you do this, make sure you control the color, shape, amount, and variety of the mud. You tell that mud what to do, not the other way around.
Haha. Mud is not respecter or persons (or particular instruments).
and @chordwainer YES… the similarity to ‘warm’ is striking.
I guess it was just really when I started thinking about the concept, the absurdity of the definition became overwhelming. No wonder we struggle with it, it’s Mud Glorious Mud… murk mush and muddle… [quote=“Jonathan, post:6, topic:1317”]
As long as your mudding things up intentionally and for the purpose of evoking a vibe then muck away my friend. 2 things though - if you do this, make sure you control the color, shape, amount, and variety of the mud. You tell that mud what to do, not the other way around.
[/quote]
i enjoyed that thought Jonathan… a crux there for me… that intangible line/boundary between intentional chaos… being the shaper rather than the shaped?
Words have always wielded a lot of power for me… and now that I’m seriously overthinking this, it makes me laugh rather a lot…
Call it distortion, saturation, white noise, an intense overlayering of frequencies?
Yeah okay…
but MUD? hah! it’s too silly really!
Yes, I guess it’s a silly term, because it can mean anything to anybody. For me, if it makes me feel nervous when I hear it, if it makes me want to run out the door, it’s “mud”, and it’s going to be dealt with - ASAP.
It usually manifests itself as a resonance anywhere from 200hZ to 800hZ.
OTOH if it’s somebody else’s muddy recording and therefore I have no control over it, I’ll probably turn it off before I even get half way through, otherwise I’ll end up feeling crap. For example, with Cristina’s latest BTR, I had to download it, import it into my DAW and scrape all the mud off just so that I could get to the end of the track. I’m glad I did because it’s a great song, and a potentially excellent recording. In my world there is just no place for mud, but of course, some people tolerate it, yet others even like it. If we were all the same, it would be a boring world wouldn’t it?
Hi AJ, thanks for chiming in here… and for giving some specifics. ‘Mud’ is one of those ubiquitous terms that I suddenly stopped and looked at and thought how incredibly fluid a descriptor it is and also kinda ridiculous! And yet, it seems to work, as some sort of mutual sonic experience… we all have a sense of it.
I just like re-visiting concepts sometimes… and challenging stuff
I guess you can divide it in a few category’s.
Its actually bloody obvious when some one points out you still have some, and you go back for another listen and say, damn, you’re right. It are very dense mixes so it gets clear why its obstructive and to not much use.