Songwriting process

Recording, Mixing and Producing
#61

yea, in my mind there seems to always be something missing lol

maybe they have a simple melody…ALONGSIDE A HUGE PRODUCTION (Chevelle)

maybe they have a simple melody…with a super classic voice (Alice in Chains, Robin Zander, Anne Wilson, ABBA)

maybe the voice is average, production decent but they lucked into some 1 in a million hook

its just sooo mentally challenging to know that so many things have to be on point to even get a decent demo. Definitely fighting straight uphill

Then again, there is hope. I loved this super classic album…The Cult, Sonic Temple. In a sense there is no outstanding thing that knocks you over the head. Dudes voice is sort of average, production is ok etc. Just the songs themselves really stand up IMO

#62

OK but again, these are recording issues, not songwriting issues. If you want to improve your recording techniques, you’re in the right place.

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#63

okay, when the time comes, remember that u said that lol

#64

alrighty then, hows my hook chorus sounding??

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#65

I like it. Guitar needs to come down in mix…

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#66

well its not really mixed to speak of. if anything though I would have thought the vox were way too loud

#67

Sounds like the genuine article to me. Good lyrical hook too.

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#68

definitely a step in the right direction anyway. Now I just gotta do it about a hundred more times to get the process habitualized

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#69

Sounds like an idea worth pursuing to me.

#70

No shame in doubling your vocals. Most hard rock guitarists double their parts and many metal vocalists do also. It’s hard for vocals to sit well in a dense, heavy rock mix. Doubling can help with that. All musicians use audio trickery at least some of the time. Distortion, reverb, delay, chorus…etc aren’t actually emanating from your fingertips when you play guitar either, right? Nobody rags on musicians for getting a little (or a lot) of help from their effects, guitar or amp. Studio trickery is fine as long as you can replicate your songs reasonably well in a live situation…But even if you can’t, it’s not something that’s worth fretting over. It just means you need more practice until you’re up to speed, or you need someone else to do the job.

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#71

another thing is mic quality. Im using a mic that cost less than $300 straight into a basic focusrite interface. Not exactly something that is going to compete with a pro studio setup lol. Dunno if I am going to be able to capture some super nuanced subtle vocal so I may as well double stuff. Listening to Steely Dan last night, most of the vox were doubled even b4 the chorus and naturally the chorus featured the multi layered vox.

I sort of draw the line with the “studio trickery” at the point where im actually performing the line. if a note is too high for me then it just dont use that note lol, im not going to pitch shift it lol

So even “doubling” (manually singing it twice) something is a skill

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#72

Double tracked vocals are sometimes used as an effect, in the same way that reverb and chorus are used as a effects. However it is mostly used in an attempt to hide the inadequecies of the vocalist. I would always advise against it.

I don’t accept that it is the same as double tracking guitar solos. That is done specifically for effect, and virtually never to hide the guitarist’s shortcomings.[quote=“Wicked, post:70, topic:1453”]
Studio trickery is fine as long as you can replicate your songs reasonably well in a live situation
[/quote]A studio recording and a live performance are two entirely separate items, and should be treated as such. Are you really saying that we should sabotage our own recordings, and make them less than they could be, purely on the basis of our perceived ability to produce something similar on a live stage? What about artists that don’t even play live? I couldn’t imagine Mutt Lange or Quincy Jones buying into that notion when they are being paid a small fortune to produce the best recording possible. It’s a ridiculous concept in my opinion.

That may be so, but I can guarantee that a $3000 mic through a top end mixer would sound barely any different. It would certainly make zero difference to your pitching, timing and attitude when recording. If you are not happy with the sound of your vocals on a recording, 95% of it can be resolved by:

a) Better singing
b) Better processing/mixing

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#73

live vs studio is a totally moot point for me as I cant see any scenario where id play these songs live. Im out to make the best recordings possible.

Some of the greatest ever vocalists use doubling extensively. its just a flavor…if it fits, it fits. It fits nicely on layered sounding stuff…not so much on up close stuff

love it

I just love that otherworldly feel that doubling gives

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#74

Pay attention class

#75

This is exactly what I’m talking about. Lots of singers use vocal doubling on their albums. It’s not just a special effect. It’s used in standard recording practices by many.

#76

Haha, of course not. I was saying the exact opposite. That’s why I said that there is no problem using vocal doubling.

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#77

I would never resort to doubling.

Well, almost never…

#78

I’d be interested in hearing those vocals with the music. Sounds good.

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#79

that was a song I did with a ton of overdubs…right when i started getting cocky about my singing lol. So I went nuts with overdubs. Problem being it was way above my ability to properly mix

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#80

Not to pile on, but I also have to disagree with you Adrian about vocal doubling. So many examples where great vocalists choose to do it. Here’s one of my faves, Me and Julio by Paul Simon. No vocal shortcomings there…

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