prechorus? virtually any song by The Cult, or Def Leppard have one lol. Has nothing to do with a “bridge” really
“Long legged lady with a black dress on…on my knees momma please”
or one of my faves. “So many times I…call your name”
Another classic, Lenny Wolf always had that nice, neat structuring. Love songs where they go “solo, prechorus, chorus” etc
Yeah those are good examples. Here’s one by Def Leppard. “Another Hit and Run”. It’s a long intro (as they were known to do in the early 80’s), 1st verse at 1:05, pre-chorus at 1:31, chorus at 1:46. 2nd verse is extremely short, back to Pre and Chorus. Then Solo. Solo bridge? Then solo again. Solo bridge again. Song bridge which I think is way more than 8 bars. An interesting “stop”. Straight into chorus with no Pre. Outro Solo.
There is basically nothing to the song, really, but this was one of my favorites to play guitar to back in the early 80’s. It f*cking rocks, but a songster analysis would probably say it sucks in structure. Oh well. I like it. :beerbang:
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Hey Patrick, I was just thinking about you this weekend, noticing you hadn’t been around for a while. Welcome back! And thanks for the comments. 
Thanks everyone for all the pointers. Lately I’ve been trying to take a more deliberate, and deliberative, approach to songwriting and have been reading up on structures and so forth. Plus there is lots of commentary out there for the mixing process that uses this kind of terminology too (reading Mike Senior’s book at the moment, which has been the spark for this and many other ideas). Realized I didn’t know a lot of stuff that I thought I did… pretty common experience for me!! 
Yeah, I’m sorry if I hadn’t been around lately.
Although I like the place (and people!), I’m trying to stay off the internet ATM and use the little time I have to do some music…
You can hear one of my last attempts here: Please Bash: It’s a Hurt
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Think I remember this from an interview with Steve Cropper and Duck Dunn… But a middle 8 is usually based upon the chords of the verse or a simplified version thereof. And a bridge is usually built from differing but complimentary chords.
So a middle 8 would be a place for solos and ad libs but no verse vocals and a bridge is meant to take you temporarily away from the original flow of the tune.
I have no help from Steve and Duck on prechorus… But I think that anything that sets up the chorus can be considered a prechorus. Even if it’s just a build or shift in the verse leading into it…
Have fun
rich
This is a GREAT topic. Here is how I usually explain it. The pre chorus is a part that takes you from the verse into the chorus and happens more than once in the song. The lyrics may or may not repeat every time its played. A bridge typically only happens once in a song and if it has lyrics they are usually from a different perspective then the other lyrics in the song or lyrics support the story line from a different angle.
The “Middle 8”. I don’t like this term because it generally, as I understand it, means you have 8 bars or 8 chords (Which of course not all bridges have 8 bars or chords). It is a slang term for bridge that I hear mostly country and folk musicians use. Usually song writers.
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Indeed, that does seem to be the case. And given that it’s songwriting that has prompted me to get into these things, I am trying to understand the terminology typically used, but it’s awfully ambiguous sometimes.
Part of my problem, I’m sure, is that a lot of the stuff I listen to doesn’t neatly fit into these kinds of structures. In many cases, even verses and choruses are not clear-cut, pretty much the only part that is really identifiable is a bridge (and @Paul999 I like the way you defined “bridge” here).
And given those influences, I try to avoid things that are “too normal” in that structural sense, although I should probably not aim quite so high… walk before I run and all that. 
That’s funny – I literally grew up listening to the Beatles and as such have to really force myself NOT to use a pre-chorus and bridge, it just comes so naturally
I think you’ve hit on the crux of it all. Whenever I teach music theory, I start with the soapbox speech that the music came first and the theory came later in order to attempt to understand/categorize/explain what’s going on.
All of these terms are just that - terms that we use to make sense of what’s happening in the music. Yes, there are some formulas, structures and patterns that have proven to be more robust and popular than others, but when it comes down to it, music theory is not a set of rules or boundaries in which you must remain.
And it’s not saying that you have to rebel against the standard “song structure” - just don’t feel that colouring outside the lines once in a while will get you lynched.
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I also grew up with the Beatles and all of the “traditional” song structures, yet even so am often confused when reading songwriting articles or mixing stuff-- naturally, not everyone uses these terms the same way.
And I sure know that I’m in the right community not to get lynched for being adventuresome! My main goal on this is just to gain a better understanding when I’m reading jargon-y writeups where these sorts of terms are tossed around. I’m not shy about either adhering to “accepted” structures or about violating them!
Yes bridge is part that leads to chorous, usually involves a repeating theme or chord change ready to let the chorous have a bigger impact.
Middle 8 as i know it is an 8 bar part nearer the end of the song, typically before a double chorous or big ending at the end which although similar to the bridge tends to have a different lyrical content, rythem or melody to the rest of the song so when the song reverts back to the chorus at the end it has a bigger impact.
I always see it as a sing structure like this:
Verse-chorus-verse-chorus-middle8-chorus
Clear as mud lol
Hard to explain,
But you will hear examples in loads of songs you know.
Here’s a song i did a while back which sort of exagerates what i mean about a middle 8
(Please excuse the shitty mix and pitchy vocals, its all one take and i got fed up withit so this is how it ended up)
The ‘middle 8’ ish part is at 1:52, you’ll understand what i mean if u listen to the whole track.
High N Dry is my favourite Def Leppard album. I remember cruising around with my older brother in his car playing Def Leppard-High N Dry, The Scorpions-Virgin Killers, Motorhead and Judas Priest-Point Of Entry in the summer of 1982. That was the year I was first introduced to all those bands.
That same summer me and my older brother were in a Metal/Punk band and one of the songs we played was Let It Go (Def Leppard). Our band played an outdoor show on Canada day with the then unknown Shania Twain on the same bill. Her band Longshot were the headliners and they played all pop-rock music. Songs from Pat Benatar, Toronto, Loverboy, etc. I was kind of struck by how attractive she was back then.
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I used to think that the bridge was right before the chorus (also called the change in the middle of the song “the bridge”). That’s what we used to call it but in recent years I’ve been referring to it as the pre-chorus.
Yeah, High N Dry is my favorite too! And Point Of Entry is one of my favorite Priest albums, though it was quite a departure from their previous stuff. So much so that the critics blasted it terribly and fan response was generally pretty weak. It still rocked, but it was a more thoughtful and laid back thing for them which was really cool IMO.
Ha, cool! I like Shania, though not so much for her country/pop music but just who she is. And how she bounced back after her divorce from Mutt Lange, he really did her wrong. He’s both hero and bastard now, that’s a tough one to reconcile.
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Here’s an easy one to categorize: I’ve Just Seen A Face by the Beatles. Verse followed by pre-chorus where McCartney sings or hums syllables instead of words, followed by chorus, then another verse and pre-chorus, then chorus, then a middle eight guitar break repeating the theme of the verse, with the end of the guitar break duplicating the pre-chorus, then back to the chorus. Fairly classic earlier Beatles arrangement.
Dave, there are no Beatles coming back anytime soon. I would think for someone involved in the space program you would be more inclined to develop a completely new song format, and in the words of Ralph Kramden, take it “To the moon, Alice”.
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Martian Boogie?
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Bob, this is a GREAT example, thank you! And the best part is that I know this song so well that I can hear it in my head on demand and followed your description to a tee! :beerbang: