November challenge SONG FOUR

November challenge SONG FOUR
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finally got thru song #4 lol.

ya’ll can bash anything about it. writing, mix, vocals, whatever

Too lazy to put guitar solos on it so far. The whole bridge section with the trippy vocals would normally have a guitar solo maybe with the vocals turned down there or trading off maybe

In a way im almost ecstatic with the vocals because they came EASY. Ive been struggling so much trying to sing while sitting in bed and its not as easy as I thought. Im in the car or at work singing like a champ and then I go to record a demo and all of a sudden its dud city. So on this one I compromised and sat in a chair by the bed and the vocals came easy. Im NOT saying they are great or perfect but at least they werent sucking for no apparent reason lol

and yeah, as usual im singing waaaay behind the beat. Its really noticeable on the prechorus. hard tendency to fight

Enjoy, dunno what it might be called. maybe “first time falling down”. who knows.


I can already tell that your lyric writing and songwriting skills are improving! This has been an excellent excersize for sure.


crazy how that works huh? lol It always comes back to that saying “what we learn TO do, we learn BY doing”

Then it often comes down to removing impediments and just finding ways to actually DO what we need to do more often etc. I guess its akin to “sharpening the axe”

But yeah, if I can actually get excited (and comfortable) about laying down vocals, it would be pretty huge for me…since I have like 9 million recorded jams that need vox lol


I dig this. You talk about your vocals falling behind the beat but I did not find that distracting, honestly to me it wasn’t noticeable. Do I sense an Alice In Chains influence?


I’ve noticed some of that same influence on a few of his songs too!


yeah, so far Im not where I want to be…like I havent done anything im REAL proud of etc. But the sound im aiming for (I think) is somewhere around VH/LedZep/Soundgarden/AIC/Whitesnake.

I think I HAD just listened to this song and I picked up the guitar and wrote my riff in about 5 minutes:

I always sort of equate grunge with a bend on the low E string lol.

And then the little vocal improv stuff…dunno, i was just sort of filling up the space

yeah, singing and playing behind the beat is one of my strong tendencies. Explains why I love VanHalen but I dont sound anything like them so far lol. Eddie and Alex pretty much always pushed the beat whereas im like a mile behind it dragging along. Also explains why I CAN sort of get into a LEdZep vibe pretty easily. Jimmy and Bonzo tended to be pretty laid back with the beat

AIC song above feels somewhat behind the beat…in no big hurry etc.

A lot of the behind the beat vox thing has just been a confidence thing…like I tend to ease into the note, not sure of the melody im going to sing etc etc…so by then im way behind the beat lol. I can look at the grid line coming up n the DAW and aim to be on it or ahead and I STILL come in behind it lol


this one had the same sort of bend on the low E in the middle of the chorus lol

So far though, my vox have been way too clean to really do any sort of justice to grunge or even hard rock. Im getting there though, working my way into some stronger vocals


Really good stuff! I like it!

This has an authenticity about it that surpasses your influences and feels genuinely individual to me.

My only suggestion would be to do more along these lines. Remember this: Particularly with vocals, listeners respond to vulnerability & genuine emotion on a far deeper human level than they do perfect pitch, technique and vocal acrobatics.


Yup, ya put a lot of emotion in this. Some great guitar in there bud. Did you ever consider coming down a couple of notes/chords. I say that because I like your voice at the lowest level the best. You are hitting most of those high notes, but I think some of the quality is getting sacrificed with those ball twisting super high ones. I am exhausted just thinking how tough that might me. I sing the best in my lazy boy…I get that.
You are a good singer and your voice has appeal. I believe




Your vocals are really starting to shine J-J… love hearing the changes… there is a flow coming through that I’m enjoying. Huge kudos to you for following through with this challenge, you’ve done so well!!


“more along these lines” — that just gets down to skill level and more experience songwriting etc. So far im not really fully in control of how things come out. Im just throwing stuff up against the wall and seeing what seems to stick lol

thanks brother,

nah, none of that was too hard. That was actually about the easiest stuff ive ever done. Only took like 45 minutes or so, which includes writing it as I went lol. Ive been practicing a ton for the last almost 2 years and its finally starting to come together a tiny bit…whereas before I have suffered a bit from “red light fever”. You know, when u have some skills etc but when u go to actually record you sort of lose your mind and forget everything you know? lol

But yeah, I definitely want to also work on some lower vocals. Right now im just going with the flow. Lower can be harder than higher lol

yeah, its coming together a bit. As u know, its crazy hard to get anything done after working a full time job. One thing that has sort of held me back slightly over the last year or so is that I do all of my vocal training at work while riding around on my forklift. Its great. Im getting paid to learn to sing. The downside is that by the time id get home I wasnt going to be doing anymore singing lol.

So I was singing a lot but hardly recording anything. Casual singing is great but its nothing like recording. So maybe a month ago I decided to cut way back on the training at work etc so id have some voice left over to record with. Now the main thing to battle is laziness lol

Thanks ya’ll, JJ


yep but the more you ‘casual’ sing, the more your confidence grows, you get the feeling for what your voice is capable of. A relaxed voice is so very different to a tight nervous voice. When you have tricksy bits to sing, just repeat them over-and-over for a bit and then leave them, it can be like a muscle memory where they are then heaps better next time you do the song. As Andrew says, there is a lot more to vocals than technical precision… but it’s a tricky business. There is a lovely additional quality to flowing vocals… you’ll know it yourself now, when they just cruise and you don’t even really think about it… fun eh? :smile:


well I equate it all to golf, which is all I used to spend my time on. You can go to the driving range all the time and hit balls. You show up and start hitting balls and you dont worry about the bad shots etc. After a while you hit a groove etc and u feel all confident and u overestimate your skill level.

you start talking junk to your buddies about how great youre hitting it. Then you go to the course to ACTUALLY play and all of a sudden you have to count those bad shots you hit lol. It can be a rude awakening.

Same for singing. If u cant do it into a mic when you hit “record”…then what good is it? lol Our ears get a LOT more critical when we listen to a playback whereas its a lot easier to fool yourself when u are just singing to yourself etc.

That being said, obviously we can narrow the gap so that eventually we can actually show all of our skills while recording. To me, thats when you REALLY have a lock on what you are doing as opposed to just sort of winging it. Again, its 100% exactly like a golf swing lol. When you get out on the course you have to be able to “find it” on the spot…just like in front of a mic.

Peace, JJ


I listened to this a bunch of times to see how I really feel about it.

There’s some good stuff happening here. I like the definition between the verse, pre-chorus and the chorus. I’m not totally sold on the vocal melodies but I do think some modifications could enhance the song a lot. You’ve got the basic structure of a potentially, really good song here. It’s like you’re almost there, but you’re just slightly shy of hitting one out of the park.

I need to go back to listen to all 4 of the songs you posted this month and decide which one I like the most. I’m not even sure if I heard all of them. I may have just heard 3. I’ll let you know which of the 4 tunes is my favourite.


dont feel bad, I dont remember the 1st or 2nd song at all lol. I probably have 2 more songs in me this month

Im nowhere near hitting my stride yet on writing. I like PIECES of stuff ive done but tbh its all very average so far. Then again im listening to queensryche “Rage for Order” right now and it sux, so I dont feel too bad lol


For me, this one is far away from demo: nice mix, bunch of sections and things during the song, some kind of personality with vocal tone, guitar sound and drum pattern, lyrics aren’t boring at all and it has that thing where the listener would think you could write ten songs like that a day!

Very nice job and great improvement from your hooks you submitted weeks ago!!