I have been on this forum for many years and i have to say i have only thought maybe 10% of the songs posted are praiseworthy that have potential for salability.
This one qualifies very high on that 10% You can feel the excitement from those who have commented.
The vocal shines thru now. I first time I thought hanging on that single vox note was not enough to carry, but I now think it works very well. I worried at 1:42 is that you would lose the vibe with the quiet series. Seemed like it need a touch more of something to keep one’s foot tapping. Wrong again on my part.
I would normally say do your own mastering on your typical average track, but not so much on this one. congrats
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Wow, high praise and much appreciated. I’ve learned a ton on here. It’s so hard to listen to your own music objectively, so it’s extra helpful to get outside advice. This forum has been so great in this regard.
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Hi FGF - Wow this is great!
I haven’t been around much lately, but I noticed this track and it is really cool. I’m a bit of a fan of the 90/00s style power pop of Weezer & Fountains of Wayne, and this really nails that vulnerable/raw vibe that makes those songs so appealing.
Having mixed a fair bit of this style of music in my time, I have a suggestion that might at first sound somewhat counter-intuitive when it comes to creating greater contrast between soft/clean and loud/distorted song sections without the distorted parts becoming too harsh and fatiguing…
It’s all in the bass. Try “multing” the bass DI through a really fat distortion for the heavy song sections. This will create a sense of thickness and loudness in the low mids that won’t fight with the vocal in the same way that distorted guitars do. You can get away with an amazing amount of distortion on bass, and its effect is almost subliminal.
A really obvious (and probably extreme) example of this is “Song 2” by Blur. Most casual listeners would assume the distorted parts come from the guitars, but the bass is providing probably most of the distortion here:
Here are two tracks I’ve mixed for other artists where distorted bass forms a big part of the chorus “big distorted guitar” sound:
This is a more straight ahead rock tune, rather than alternative/indie, but the guitars are being massively supported in the distorted dept. by the distorted bass:
In any case, just a suggestion - have a play around with it, and see what you come up with!
I really enjoyed the tune - top job!
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You really do learn something new everyday, and I’ll admit, that’s the first time I’ve ever heard of that specific term, although upon further investigation I see it simply refers to the technique of directing a signal to ‘mult’ iple outputs.
Well there you go, I’ve been ‘multing’ all this time and didn’t even know it hehe.
This is really great advice, I think something like this would really elevate those distorted sections and help add to the contrast between the parts.
It would be nice to hear a bit of extra processing on the snare through those distorted parts too. to help add a bit more life with some verb, and maybe even a subtle overdrive/saturation for punch.
That “Four Points” song is cool as hell too, mix sounds amazing.
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Yeah it’s basically audio-nerd shorthand for “parallel processing”, I suppose…Although I kind of tend to think of “multing” specifically relating to situations where you have different processing switching off and on, but coming from the same source, depending on the particular part of the song. I do that a lot with lead vocals. Rather than automating a whole lot of parameters on one track for different sections, I just tend to use different tracks for each section with different processing and fx that suit the particular section.
I probably should have explained myself better there, but you worked it out anyway!
A fair while ago I did a bit of a breakdown of how I approach bass mixing here:
Sometimes when I’m tracking my own music, I actually track left and right bass guitars playing power chords through distorted amplifiers if I really want to add a lot of weight and power to a section. It gets that low mid thickness happening in a way that a guitar can’t really match. That’s a trick I picked up from watching Eric Valentine break down some of his production techniques.
That’s one of my favourite mixes that I did early on. It’s a cool song from a local band here in Brisbane. That was from around 2010 or so - the first EP I ever mixed for a band for money. There are definitely things I’d change about it now, but it is what it is, I guess.
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Very cool stuff, I’m gonna pour over that when I’ve got a bit more time up my sleeve, looks like an amazing resource, cheers for the link.
Wow, that’s pretty awesome too, can’t say I’ve ever heard of that trick but it definitely makes sense. Will be trying that out at some stage fo sure!
Ain’t that always the way though. It sounded really solid to me.
I know you’re a busy dude, but I’d really love to hear your interpretation of a mix with this particular number. I reckon you could add that final push over the finish line this track deserves.
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Hey mate, I’m always up to mix a good song I like… but I also realise that for most people here, mixing is a big part of the fun, so I never want to presume that anyone wants to hand off their mix to someone else in a hurry… certainly happy to help in any way I can, though!
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Awesome! I record through an Orange bass butler that runs two DI outs (clean and dirty) for that reason. But I left it really quiet in the mix just to give the bass some extra frequencies underneath. That’s a great idea, push it up in the mix at the heavier parts. What are your thoughts about leaving it panned center (as it is currently)? Or should I record a second distorted bass and hard pan them R & L?
Also, I ended up sending it to the Audio Bros podcast and they played it on their show. Great experience but very humbling. They both really liked the tune and the raw sound. They both felt the cymbals should be brought down and the bass up. So I’ve made both of these changes.
The other thing they both felt strongly about were my vocals, and mentioned they were distracted by some sort of chorusing effect. I’m trying to wrap my head around this feedback. I doubled my vocals (two performances that in my opinion were very close). Then I picked the best sounding of the two and reduced the volume of the other. They were both panned dead center. Both with eq and compression. The quieter vocal was low passed to minimize sibilance.
I was using CLA vocals (which they both praised earlier in their episode) for a slight delay that wasn’t v over the top in my opinion. I had the Stereo slider all the way down, which apparently still adds a subtle effect. I now know to turn it all the way off. Maybe this was the problem?
I guess I’m just trying to figure out the best way to mix /process my vocals. They’re not especially strong and need some help, without overdoing the effects!
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Hi sir fly. I am the least talented in music production. Only can say what has happens to me when I sing a lyric line twice. It just sounds over processed. You mentioned putting the second down the middle almost perfectly overlapping the first. The only way I can get the second vox to partially sync is to put it about 50% R or L and at a lesser volume. Also I googled (phasing singing two vocals and got this:
If your doubles sound “phasey” then they are probably too tight . Most people struggle with getting their vocal doubles tight enough. Try recording your doubles a little looser or try going with a subtle harmony instead of a double, or leave your lead really dry and use your tight double to drive your ambience (DDL and reverb) sends.
Good luck, but Andy will know either way 
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Absolutely mate, and far be it from me to stick my nose in and try and interject my will into someone else’s project.
And for the record, I think @flyguitarfish mix is really solid, he’s done a fucking bang up job.
But I also know speaking from a songwriter/musicians perspective it can become easy to get bogged down in the minutia of the mix too, whereas getting an outside party in who isn’t emotionally connected to the track can be a positive thing as well sometimes.
I wouldn’t typically ever raise this as a suggestion, but I think the track is good enough that it would definitely warrant looking into giving it that professional push over the finish line.
I was a good show, and I thought their feedback was valid. Hopefully it gave you a few more ideas to work on moving forward.
The album art was a hit too hehe.
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You’re all awesome. I’ll take any help I can get. This is a lifelong quest for me, and your collective feedback and advice have helped me a ton over the short time I’ve been on this site.
100% agree, it’s so important to get feedback from the outside looking in since I’m right in the middle of things and have a hard time looking at my music and mixes objectively.
As far as giving you guys a crack at mixing my tune…I would be absolutely thrilled to get an outside interpretation. My biggest hang up would be transferring the stems in an organized manner. They’re all over the place in bits and pieces. A couple times I accidentally recorded a background vocal on the lead track. And there are almost 50 tracks total. I’ll see if I can organize everything and figure out a good way to pass them along.
And absolutely, the feedback was legit on the Audio Bros podcast. I’m really taking it to heart. I don’t feel too bad that it didn’t knock it out of the park. How could I?! They nailed my exact issues I’ve been struggling with for a long time. Especially my vocals. But I’ll keep trying…hey, that’s theme of this song!
And lastly, the artwork for the album cover was made by my daughter. She’s amazing and hilarious. She’s 12 but tried to make it look like a younger kid drew it. She’s getting good at bass and guitar so quickly it blows my mind. What a talented kid! For those that missed it…
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Hey FGF, just wondering - What DAW are you using?
Ableton Live.
I’m going to make a copy of the session so I can mess w it. I’ll move the tracks around so they’re grouped correctly, then export each track as a full length WAV file so they line up easily and are correctly named. Then any of you can just drag and drop them into your DAW. I think that would be easiest.
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Yeah that sounds like a good plan. The most important thing is to make sure all the .wav files start from the same point, and that they are raw, without any track or master buss processing on them… that is, unless there is a sound that you really want to be in the finished product (like a guitar simulator instead of just the plain guitar DI). There are some tutorials like this one online that give some good tips:
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Awesome, thanks!
Also, I’d be interested in more thoughts on mixing double tracked lead rock vocals. I know there are lots of ways do it and I’d love to get your experience on what has worked for you.
At the moment I have two tracks that are pretty close performance-wise. One will always be a little stronger or have more energy so I’ll select it as my main vocal. I’ll drop the volume of the second vocal to sit underneath. Both panned center. I’ll put on an EQ (especially to remove some of the highs on the quieter vocal), compressor (usually 1176 type), add a little stereo delay to the quieter vocal, a touch of saturation to both.
Like I mentioned before, the CLA vocal plugin apparently leaves the “stereo” effect on even with the slider all the way down. Glad I figured that out. I’ll turn it off which will hopefully help with the phaser chorusey sound I was getting.
Thoughts? Other approaches to try to thicken up and even out an admittedly thin vocal?
Hi I love these kinds of threads where everyone who makes songs benefits from the comments.
First off, don’t waste time answering my post. I just don’t get how you ended up with a thin vocal in the first place? Is it a volume problem? Compression didn’t help?
I mix improperly especially vocals and no compression. I visually look and listen to just that vox track. I then hear and see spikes and lows that deviate excessively. I chop the track there and lower or raise that word or section usually less than 3db. Then I listen for irregularities. It works for me. Anybody who reads this will think WTF
I still think double tracking vocals puts one vulnerable to phasing in general. I have tried and had folks here say “what ever you did for processing on that vocal, lose it” ha ha
On a side note I have a 1176 I think I paid around 1K for and it is stuffed in a drawer somewhere. Not sure if anyone uses these monsters anymore. Anyhow thank again for giving the forum new life
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I tend to not double track vocals for an entire song. I mostly just double track certain sections that I want to highlight. I go for a fairly subtle double track effect, where the lead vocal is really loud and proud, and the double supports only to add some thickness.
In choruses, I tend to add another “double” (actually a triple), and I pan them out hard left and right. Usually they will blend with any chorus harmonies.
Paul, this is commonly called “clip-gaining” and I do this exact same thing…It’s basically volume automation… Except I then follow it by multiple stages of compression. In fact, I mentioned how I do this in mix preparation in this post (if you read down a few paragraphs):
A “thin” vocal isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Too much low end can create problems in a mix. That said, a vocal can be “thickened” by adding a little 200hz (but not too much or it gets muddy) and some saturation (as you’ve already mentioned).
As for compression etc., this post outlines my approach to vocals:
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I consider that a huge compliment, fly. It was a stellar arrangement for a catchy song, both musically and lyrically. I loved it just the way it is, oozing with authentic angst, and such a positive message for everybody. I really like the childhood scenerios referenced, they almost naturally translate to adult problems without the extra heaviness.
Excellent guitar and vocals, too. Thanks for sharing!
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Awesome, that’s a great read. Thanks for posting the link. I usually have two compressors on a vocal track, but I really like what you said about using two different types of compressors. I always use the 1176 twice. I don’t have an La2a, but I have a couple others that I can play with.
I probably just need to embrace my vocal tone instead of trying to cover it up all the time. Hey, if Billy Corgan and Les Claypool can do it…so can I!
I’ll be buried at work for the next two weeks straight, but hope to button up this project and start another idea I have kicking around at that point. Again, I’m grateful for all the feedback and really appreciate this forum. I’ve never been on any site where people take so much time and are so helpful.
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I like this one, great song. The opening jumps up a bit at me…was thinking that maybe you can do one phrase just vocals and then add the ac. guitar to build it up just a touch in the beginning as it starts a touch abrupt to me…which might also be a cool thing. My 2c.
After your fixes the track sits really well, no complaints anywhere.
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