First mix ever :) Bash it to the ground, FINAL update

[DeRebel]

mix1

UPDATE:
mix2

UPDATE 2:
Mix3

Update 3:
Mix4

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Did a littlebit more tweaking. Cleared some mud in the lows, altered the room mike so the snare would be a bit fatter, and cut tome more off the toms in the room mike. High passed the bass group a bit higher, and the guitars as well. And also deleted the compression on the 2bus, and only did some limmiting on it.

Hi guys,

I was thinking of doing a new mix first, but I thought, what the heck, thats cheating This is my first ever mix of a song. In the sence of mixing all the tracks, instead of only adjusting a bit guitar to not sound so horrible Its my first real effort in trying to get a mix together. I used a mixing guide to help me get a bit perspective and mainly used headphones, since I currently have a very bad accousticly sounding room. Checked on my monitors a few times, after having them headphones on for a couple of hours and starting to feel like being a bathtub. For now there are no automations added yet, I wanted to focus on the sound first. I’m not realy happy with it at the moment. especially the guitar tone sucks, but hey, its plug in, and didn’t change strings so. anyway

Headphones: Sennheiser HD650

DAW: Cubase
I used the build in channel strip saturation of cubase on all string channels, and I’m not sure anymore but I think also on the drum bus.

Guitars:
1 left 100% 1 left 80% 1 right 80% and 1 right 100%
-I’m gonna try and do 2 single guitar tracks next instead fo doubles. And at least trow away one sounnd cause it makes it sound to nasal/cardboard like.

Bass: Center
1 DI track for the subs
1 track with amp sim ( also bias fx ) for nicer mids
1 track with amp sim and distortion ( also with bias fx ) for the (sec most hated word) glue
EQ’d them all first, then send them to a buss, where I used compression and eq to try and get it to work.

Drums:
Played by the drummer of my band on an electrick kit, and sapled with steven slate drums.
From there on I just whent the same way you would aproach a real kit. eq’s and everything.

EQ: fabfilter Q2
Compressors: Fabfilter C and TDR Nova
Reverbd: Fabfilter R

I did some compressing on the master bus wich I kinda regret, but fuck it

So, please bash this hard as I need A LOT of practice with this stuff, and I realy want to master it some day, so give me all the trashing your dirty little minds can persieve

Oh, and the next mix attempt I’ll add the leads onto it.
This track is for my band, and will be used to auditions for a new vocalist. google the bananaexperiment, and you’ll see where I got the name. Not that it matters.

As always, screw my english, but enjoy the listen !

Praise jebus

[Jonathan]

Hmm. Well the first thing that comes to mind is that the vocals are a little low in the mix.

[DeRebel]

Imagine, Taylor swift being over run by a lawnmower.

[Jonathan]

Finish Her!!!

Flawless Victory.

[rjwillow]

I’m gonna try and do 2 single guitar tracks next instead fo doubles. And at least trow away one sounnd cause it makes it sound to nasal/cardboard like.

nasal/cardboard sounds like a phase issue to me. But I’m not really hearing a problem in the mix.
You’ve done an EXCELLENT job on this mix, Buddy!
I’ve heard other tunes in this genre with heavier gtrs and louder, bigger drums. But I’ve also heard tighter gtrs and smaller drums, too. Your mix is well balanced and stands on its own as is.
One thing that I read in your description was that you used saturation quite a bit. Be careful with this. Saturation is very “hip” these days and probably overused as compression… Saturation on saturated/distorted gtrs CAN make them sound smaller. Try setting up a parallel saturation buss and run the gtrs to them so you can turn it on and off and see for yourself if it’s doing what you want. While you’re at it, make one for the drums as well. A parallel sat buss can really make your drums slam (if that’s what you want)
But again… no real problems with your mix. When you get vocals in there, it will be a whole new ballgame… but you can deal with that when you get there… have fun
rich

[tachin1]

I like the guitar riff, it’s pretty awesome, you could throw this in along with the Doom soundtrack and it would not sound out of place,

Here’s what I’m hearing:

The guitars above all else, the drums a distant second, and the bass… not so much.

I think the sounds of the individual instruments is nice, though the guitars are too upfront, you should make sure the drums are ass loud as the guitars and carve out a speace for each, and make sure that the bass actually supports the low end and drives the rythm as much as the drums.

I don’t hear any obvious problems just a matter of making sure each instrument claims it’s space in the mix.

Edit: The snare hits need some variation, that would help adding some more personality to the mix.

[DeRebel]

Be careful with this. Saturation is very “hip” these days and probably overused as compression

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to check it out and comment

Yes the saturation can be dangerous I guess, but the main reason I used it, is cause I didn’t use new strings on the guitar, so to give it a little mor e life And on the drums I didn’t use it at all, looking back to it.

I’ll try that parallel bus thingy out, could work indeed Some saturation just on the snare could do nice things to I guess.

nasal/cardboard sounds like a phase issue to me. But I’m not really hearing a problem in the mix.

Not sure how to know you get fase issues, and how to solve them Have read a little bit about it, but dealing with it is quite new to me

Grts !

[DeRebel]

I think the sounds of the individual instruments is nice, though the guitars are too upfront, you should make sure the drums are ass loud as the guitars and carve out a speace for each, and make sure that the bass actually supports the low end and drives the rythm as much as the drums.

You’re right, now that I hear it again on my monitors, the drums are a little bit to soft. Or at least elements of it, will try to fix that in the next attempt.

And with the bass I’ve been realy carefull not to make it boomy. But I’m gonna try a slightly different aproach next time. Its still gonna be quite anal I guess but gonna keep de kick more in perspective this time.

I’ve used Ermin Hamidovics mixing guide for this, and he has 3 aproaches for bass. The sec is surgical and it made me do an EQ on all the tracks saperate with a little bit of brick wall. Then send them all to a buss, where I start with EQ for again high and low pass, then another light brick wall, then 2 compressors in serie, then EQ’s to get surgical on the mud down below and fret hits in the mid’s, high mid’s etc… And then again a compressor but multiband, and then again a brickwall Quite anal. But since I’m farely new to most tools I think I messed up some where. Gonna try it again

Thanks for your time and comment !
Grts

[DeRebel]

I like the guitar riff, it’s pretty awesome

Wich one do you mean ?

[tinkle]

It’s not my cup of tea, not my music style but it sound nice, there is a lot of work.

[BunkerAudioPanama]

Sounds pretty darn good! There is a little siblance overall. Taming that just a little will define better the lower ends. Besides, sounds pretty darn good! Maybe a little Teletronics (CL-2) slap on the kick and snare will bring them out a little more so they sit fat in between the power you punched into those killer guitar riffs!

[DeRebel]

It’s not my cup of tea, not my music

No problem mate I appreciate the chance!

[DeRebel]

There is a little siblance overall.

You might be right, the highs are not as smooth as I want them yet [quote=“BunkerAudioPanama, post:11, topic:1071”]
Maybe a little Teletronics (CL-2) slap on the kick and snare will bring them out a little more
[/quote]

What now ?
Yeah, I played with the EQ a bit, and got a little bit more tak into it, if thats what you mean? Overal the mix needs to be redone anyway, cause there’s some more conflicts like that!

Thanks for the insight, and time !

[rjwillow]

Not sure how to know you get fase issues, and how to solve them Have read a little bit about it, but dealing with it is quite new to me

If you have two signals that sound fine on their own but sound like cardboard or nasal when combined, it usually points to phase cancellation At least now you can look at the waveforms and confirm it.
Get the 2 files on top of eachother in your tcp and see if both files are tracking the same way… in other words, when one wave is going up the other should be as well and vise versa. If they are matched but you still get the cardboard, it could be the processing and the visual reference will not work. turn off the processing and see if the sound gets bigger/better. If so, you can try to flip the phase/polarity -or- slide the waveform on the timeline slightly to line it back up by ear.
I go pretty nuts with phase correction before I start mixing. But I find it easier to hear “how bad” I can get it than “how good”. What I mean by that is that I will intentionally “flip the phase” on 2 tracks and line up the waveforms until they sound the thinnest (or cancel out completely) and then revert back to “in phase”. This usually gets the “best” signal. It may not always be the “best” sound. But it is the most accurate representation. This being said, I will normally just duplicate a track that I suspect to have phase issues and mess with that so I can A/B between my “fix” and the original within the context of the mix. I will also render/freeze a track (to a new track)with whatever processing I have on it so I can inspect it visually if I suspect the processing to be causing phase issues. I will usually go back to the original track and mess with the processing to see if I can overcome the phase problem. But this is more for my learning/experience than anything else.
If you keep at it, you will recognize phase problems and learn what causes them in your system/workflow. It’s a good skillset to own… Have fun
rich

[DeRebel]

Alright man, that 's a good explanation I understood the sinus thing, and canceling out each other, but noticing when or where it 's occurring is a bit harder. But I think in this case its one of the tracks 's plugin sound, cause it sounds quite bad on its own now that I hear it lol

I will try to test those tricks out ! Thanks a lot !

[DeRebel]

update: new mix, and added solo’s. Not completly happy yet with the way the solo sit in/next to the mix

[Aef]

Not really my shot of espresso either, but the recording/ mix is pretty amazing for a first ever! I like the lead in the second mix. Could be fatter maybe. Some delay/ verb? I preferred the drum sound on the first mix. In my cans they sound a bit harsh in the second mix. And a bit more bass gtr would balance things out.

[DeRebel]

Hey Aef,

Thanks for still taking time to give your opinion, even if its not your shot of tequila

Yeah, overal the sound of the guitar had to be tighter in my opinion, but I think its the bias fx or my ibanez guitar with emg’s or the combination, or the fact that I havent figured out a good setup with this combination. Cause with podfarm it was easier as far as I remember. and ofcourse with real amps, but yeah, no space for them to record them atm
But more bass is gonna be hard, Its pretty hard atm, but with music like this its always advised to watch out with base, cause it gets muddy pretty fast.
But probably the way I mixed it is not good enough yet to get it thrue properly But when I mute the base, the difference is huge.

[blairhall1974]

First off, for a first mix ever it sounds pretty damn good!
Here’s what I’ve gotten from a couple of listens. Take this with a bit of a grain of salt, as I’m listening on my Bose headphones at work, but I referenced it against other similar styles that I’m listening to so at least I had “pro” mixes to compare to.

First thing, the drums sound really one-dimensional. Almost like they’re in mono. I’d think about width in the kit, like panning the OH’s, working on the sounds of the individual drums, and really making use of the great room sounds that SSD drums have. With SSD you can dial in some pretty good tones that are already processed, but still could use some love during mix down, like extra EQ and compression. Also, unless you’re just using the drum tracks as more of scratch tracks that you’ll replace later, I’d work more on the dynamics of the MIDI. You can get a much more convincing drum sound by playing with velocities. Finally, the kick and snare need to hit harder, and that’s a result of different samples/layering samples, then proper EQ and compression. Use those room sounds… for me that’s always been the key to huge drums.

Guitars sound pretty good… what sim did you use? About quad tracking, you’ll often find with metal that quad tracking doesn’t achieve the sound that you’re looking for, and can in fact make things sound a bit worse. Especially if you run into phase issues as mentioned above. Lead tone sounds pretty good. I think the guitars could sound “bigger” and that’s a function of playing with the guitar tone and smart EQ’ing.

For bass, I liked the tone that I heard, but personally I prefer it a bit higher in the mix. You can definitely push the bass without muddying up the whole mix, it just depends on how you want to go about doing it. The secret here is to push up frequencies above the low end, because it’s the mid-range that will allow us to actually hear the sound and crunch of a nice metal bass tone. Ermin’s suggestions for bass are great, as are his suggestions for pretty much everything else, but once you start to get into frequency clashing the “guide” approach sometimes has to be thrown out. Some suggestions: Put a multi band compressor on the bass bus, crush the shit out of the low end and raise the volume of the track/lower the low end on the compressor until you’ve got a good combination of tight low end and audible mids-highs. Another one, which is what I use generally for metal (and may be one of the techniques in Ermin’s guide, can’t remember), is splitting the bass into two (sometimes 3) tracks. One track is the DI that’s low-passed at around 200Hz and crushed so the low end is consistent, the second is high-passed around 250-350 and that gets fed through processing like sims/distortion and whatever other crap I like that day. That way, I have more control over the different aspects of the bass tone. Most importantly though, is making sure your bass doesn’t clash with your kick, which I have a feeling this does a little bit. Things like EQ’ing around the kick fundamental (usually around 60Hz) and ducking your bass a bit with a compressor sidechained to the kick work really well with this. The play between the kick and bass is ALWAYS the most difficult (and one of the most important) parts of the mix, and is certainly something I’ve struggled with.

Another thing to watch for is a buildup of low end during blast beats or double-kick sections. A common technique is automating a small eq cut to the low end of the kick during those sections so there’s less of a frequency buildup. I didn’t hear as much sibilance as others had, but that could be the headphones I’m listening on. Overall, I think you’re definitely on the right track for a first mix… welcome to the never ending world of second-guessing yourself and always trying to figure out how to make it sound better!

Thanks for sharing, and I hope some of this makes sense! Cheers!

[blairhall1974]

Oh, and as mentioned above… doing parallel processing can make a HUGE difference in a metal track. Things like parallel drum compression, snare compression, parallel saturation/distortion can make a track sound amazing. BUT it can also make one sound like shit. That’s the joy of mixing! Cheers!