The entire paragraph. Sorry man but it loses cohesion about ten words in. For example,what do you mean by “when there’s an existing live mic track”?
Ahhh got it… I thought you meant with the concept itself.
Guess that’s why I don’t write for a living.
So I’ll try to be more clear: a track printed using a sample-replacement plugin will never be 100% in line with the existing track it’s being triggered from (i.e. a snare top track). So unless you like flams, there has to be some manual alignment of the samples after having been printed.
You asked how it works with overheads. In the snare example, as long as the original snare mics are in phase with the overheads, and the sample is time/phase aligned to the snare mics, then there isn’t an issue. Now, there could be an issue with using a sample that is radically different than what’s in the overheads, but there are also OH samples that could be blended.
1 Like
OK I understand the text now thank you, but I’m not sure I understand fully what you are saying. The samples are always triggered “in line” with the original track. That’s the point of replacement software. If it wasn’t in line, it would be useless. Unless I’m misunderstanding your use of the term ‘in line’.
What exactly is flamming for you?
I think he means the triggers trail a touch. I’ve never looked at how they align with the original track in Drumagog when I’ve done this but it sounded on, and I was doing things like thrash, death metal at the time.
Yup!
@AJ113 You’re right, that is the point of replacement software, but in my experience with Slate Trigger, at least when I print the track, it’s never 100% accurate. Now that being said, there’s usually only a handful of hits that are off, and it’s generally easy to hear the ones that are. Flamming in this context for me just means that the hit from the original track and hit from the sample track are misaligned so they sound like 2 hits reaaaallly close to each other… or it’s close enough that the two hits are out of phase, so the combined hit is weak.
@Descent I’ve never used Drumagog… so many people swear by it though! Do you print the track?
Now, all this being said, I’m actually moving towards a different workflow for this kinda thing. When I import all the tracks, I generate MIDI notes from all the drum shells (thank you, Superior Drummer 3!) and trigger SD3 or Slate Drums 5 from those and it’s been solid. I’ll still use trigger for one-shot samples though.
Sweet!
SD3 is great, so I guess going in that direction is a lot easier, but still wouldn’t it be even easier to find a high end say Roland midi kit and track with that? Or still you use some of the live tracks?
I’ll always try to use the live tracks unless they’re so poorly recorded they’re un-usable. Although, I actually did a record for a buddy years ago that we did the midi kit thing on and it turned out really well.
Hey man. Didn’t get a chance to read through the previous posts, so my apologies if I’m repeating stuff already discussed.
I use Slate, and XLN as triggers then supplement them with the BFD and NI Maschine libraries when necessary. I have the entire BFD expansion and entire XLN collection, with some added sounds from I Want That Sound.
For the trigger I like the XLN one because of the control it offers. I’ve never used drumagog.
Sure I’ll pull a track from it and post when I get the chance… actually lemme check, it was on itunes at some point
Alright here’s a video they shot… Audio isn’t great though.
I didn’t mix this, this was before I got into mixing. I did some of the tracking and helped a lot with the drum production. I’m trying to remember what we used for drum sounds, I think it was maybe Drumkit From Hell or an earlier version of EZ Drummer but I don’t remember 100%.
How are you hearing a flam if the sample is replacing the original? Granted there is a chance of the sample being a couple of milliseconds late but you should still be hearing only one shot - i.e. the sample.
I’m talking about blending with the original. If it’s replacement that’s a non-issue as you said.
Ahh I see. Yes I’ve tried blending a few times but I really don’t see the point. Full replacement always sounds better to me.
1 Like
I think it depends on the situation… but with the quality of today’s plugins I certainly can’t completely disagree with you.
yeah my thoughts exactly, so just throwing this in there… when it comes to drum replacement, its the MIDRANGE thats difficult to get right, the stuff that comes from the more distant mics… samples are almost ALWAYS top and bottom end HEAVY, to sound more impressive.
You’re saying that drum mid frequencies come from room and overhead mics?
Fuck yeah. 100%.
Damn . Nobody ever asked me that straight up like that before.
Yes.
Do your low mids from rooms and high mids from overheads, as a general rule, then add full lows and other possible highs from the close mics, although I generally low pass tom mics brutally.
Or alternatively, no.
I high pass the overheads to about 800Hz usually so any mid frequencies in my drums are coming from close mics. I don’t mean to be confrontational but the last thing I want in my drums is a load of mid-range room/overhead honk.
It’s so genre dependent that there’s no best way, but I think I fall closer to @vtr here. Because close mics by virtue of their position tend to enhance midrange resonances on the top heads, more often than not I’m cutting back harmonics anywhere from 150-1.5k tuning, drum, player and song dependent. By contrast the rooms usually aren’t emphasising those resonances and can sound pretty great through the mids. And with overheads, sometimes I think they can give you the best, biggest and most natural low end vs. the more produced and polished sound of pushing the close mic lows. I’ve pushed up a low shelf on OH tracks before to get more of that, though if the kit isn’t tuned right obviously we’ve all come across reasons not to do that.