This brings up a question I’ve been meaning to ask. I have a friend (really, I do) that I’ve recorded a couple times and I noticed that when he’s doing vox, as soon as he starts getting “loud” he backs off the mic and the vocal gets weaker. A local sound engineer friend (yes, I have more than one friend) suggested that I put a compressor on the vocal track while the singer sings so that when he gets “louder” he’s less likely to back away. My question is (and this might be poorly worded): If I go this route in the future, will it affect how the vocal ends up if I turn that compressor off after we’re done getting the vocals recorded? In other words, will the vocal still end up on the hard drive the way it would have if I hadn’t used a compressor at all? I hope that makes sense.
If I understand your question correctly, and assume that you mean using a plugin rather than hardware, then your answer should be yes.
To be clear: If your vocalist’s track has a comp plugin on it while tracking, you still have the dry signal captured and if you de-activate the comp after tracking, that’s all you’ll be left with. Then you’re free to use some other comp, add eq, all the rest, at your discretion and leisure. If you’re tracking with a hardware compressor, different story, that sound will be locked in at tracking and the only way to remove it will be to re-track.
That right there (along with just not having any space for outboard gear) is the main reason I will likely always remain an ITB kinda guy…
If I’m understanding you right Al, I think you mean just put a software compressor on the vocal track while recording?
That should work fine. I do it all the time. My Steinberg MR816CSX interface has on board DSP, so I can track while monitoring compression, eq and reverb, but choose to record the dry signal only.
I’ve also recorded vocals and other instruments just monitoring through the DAW set to the lowest latency. The same principle applies - you put whatever plugins you want to use on the track (as long as they don’t create additional latency, which some look ahead and cpu-hungry plugins do), and monitor through your DAW. When you disable the plugins after recording, you’ll be left with the raw vocal.
However, if you’re talking about a hardware comp, you would have to set up the routing so that the compressor is in the monitoring only,while your DAW records the dry signal.
It depends. Some software (I think Cubase does…) gives you the option of putting plugins on the incoming channel so that it does destructively record.
Or, you can put plugins on the track you’re recording to and monitor from that track.
Really it just depends how you want to deal with your monitor sound - some interfaces have direct zero-latency monitoring, obviously if you monitor through the DAW and plugin you’re going to be at the mercy of your latency/buffer settings and even 2 or 3 ms can be enough to through some people off.
DRY SIGNAL! That’s the term I couldn’t think of. That’s exactly what I want, the raw, unprocessed, dry signal. All my plugins are ITB. I don’t have (nor do I want) any outboard gear. Thanks gang!
if you are using the Xair you can use one of the compressors on the track and depending on your routing from that to your DAW you can either go post preamp (dry) or post FX or both.
DAWs have a ‘render in place’ or a ‘bounce in place’ function that allows you to commit your processing to a track if for some reason you need to. This glues any processing you have on the track permanently. You won’t ‘destructively edit’ the captured audio unless you engage this function.
Quick tip - and here’s an example: Once I get a vocal auto tuned, I want to forget about the original audio. I have zero need for it. Ever. Some guys keep the original ‘just incase’. I don’t. So I tune the vocal then commit immediately.
I sometimes use that “render in place” thing Jonathan mentioned – in Mixcraft they call it freezing the track. Nice thing is, it’s reversible. When you freeze, it generates a .wav but still stores the raw data on the HD somewhere. You can freeze a bunch of processed tracks to lose the latency and then unfreeze them later if you need to make adjustments. Pretty useful-- although I will say that since I rebuilt my music rig with a next-gen CPU and more memory, I have not needed to do it again, my rig can easily handle everything I throw at it these days.
Yes, most DAWs store the dry signal then apply effects. At least Ableton does, Reaper does. FL stands out since it treats the digital mixer like a real one and applies effects as it records.
Yes having a vocal chain in place at the time of recording helps. The vocalist is more committed to the performance when he hears it as a finished mix. @BigAlRocks sometimes i put reverb too just to hear myself glued into the mix when i record.
I was just watching a cool thing on this yesterday and it clicked a idea I got off Kenny reaper site in reaper there is a thing called monitor fx it is a global thing so everytime you open a session it is there so one can put effects ( eq compressor reverb etc…) and you will hear it but it wont print to the track but the listener can be more inspired without messing up your mix I find this invaluable. here the video.
my short spat of messing with vox comps in 2015 lead me to believe most the records/producers seemed to put a tiny comp on going in, hardware but it was so small an amount , like 2:1 or 3:1 something, it was unnoticeable to me and therefore not worth the money and cables when I set it up like that. (possibly for tape it was more important?)
then others say with digital headroom we dont need to do that just record at a lesser volume.
ITB it seems on my unit, which might be the same for most, if Mic 1 is in CH 1 - to Track 1 it comes in DRY and I can have FX realtime on channel 9&10 compression reverbs anything goes on Track 2. So I have both wet and dry.
For monitoring then I can simply mute Track 1 and leave Track 2 live but the DAW is capturing both
Problem with a lot of IT FX on vocals is the latency causing space-shifter darth vader sounds…
You can also just compress the monitor chain so that he doesn’t back off the mic. Just compress only on that side, not the recording side. Just another way to skin the cat…
I agree with what some of the people say here. I am a purist. I like as raw as you are able to give me…however, If the track is too hot or too soft(bad gain staging), that or your performer “friend” thinks he has good mic technique, then do your best to fix those thing at the source, hopefully without pissing off the gain staging.
Counter to that, on my presonus 1642, i have the ability to have the tiniest bit of correction(or lots) going in to my daw that I work with, depending on the particular situation. Whether it’s written to the recording or just in the monitors depends on the situation.
You CAN put plugins on your input channel in Cubase to print your track with FX.
I never do it this way though, because I’ll never know if I will not regret it once it’s in the full mix.
i think im starting to like the theory of purist a bit more too. just track it better, get the right mic perspective. or is it preference for simpler chain?
reading some Bruce Sweden chats he was anti-compression, being old school and watching it become a “automated volume control” if used wrong it might be squashing dynamics. The others seem to have it so little used, 2:1 with high thresholds its not even on for a lot of sources …so the cost doesnt make sense.
if its so minor a setting why spend the money on one?
if its not a great comp, probably degrading the sound source=remove crap from chain.
is it something that was needed for tape but now its just not needed?
3a) are people just copying the old famous procedures without questioning it using settings others told them they use?
squashing it as an FX and “color” maybes better done later, because it might not sound very good the next day.
I get #4, and maybe those vintage tube comps can do the fuxzzbox/silk well like a nice marshall tube amp fuzz tone but outside that for clean and classical etc… simple=track better=save money= play with it in the box at mix if needed.
