BMTH Doomed mix contest

[Jonathan]

After the differences in volume and metering are accounted for…when you bring everything down to the same level, I liked Mix 1 better because I felt like it had more glue and it breathes. It has space.

Hey…listen. I’ll tell you something I’m learning about myself from these last few months of getting trashed, fried, kicked to the curb, then rehired. I’m finding I tend to favor mixes with less processing and place an extremely high value on clarity over energy and power.

Also, I think its really important for you to keep in mind that my background is NOT in this genre. Remember that I’m a classical pianist who’s primary income as a professional engineer is in orchestral and church music.

[Jon-Jon]

After the differences in volume and metering are accounted for…when you bring everything down to the same level, I liked Mix 1 better because I felt like it had more glue and it breathes. It has space.

Hey…listen. I’ll tell you something I’m learning about myself from these last few months of getting trashed, fried, kicked to the curb, then rehired. I’m finding I tend to favor mixes with less processing and place an extremely high value on clarity over energy and power.

Also, I think its really important for you to keep in mind that my background is NOT in this genre. Remember that I’m a classical pianist who’s primary income as a professional engineer is in orchestral and church music.

word

im a decent fan of Gregorian chant lol

[Jonathan]

I like Byzantine chant better

[Jon-Jon]

Well, this is all pretty puzzling to me, as I too felt the reference mix was decent.

…So logically my critique was pretty much based on that premise…Obviously I’m missing something…

In any case - I think I’ll refrain from commenting any further, for fear of muddying the waters to a greater degree and offering contradictory advice that will probably confound and confuse.

FWIW, here is a SOS article on Dan Lancaster mixing another song from the same album, that may (or may not) be helpful: https://www.soundonsound.com/people/inside-track-bring-me-horizon

ears are ears brother. I need and accept all feedback. Even if my ears cant hear it all now, they will and the more opinions given, the more we all learn

Im somewhat agnostic on how good or bad the reference track is. Its a pro track and better than i can do at this point

[Jon-Jon]

FWIW, here is a SOS article on Dan Lancaster mixing another song from the same album, that may (or may not) be helpful: https://www.soundonsound.com/people/inside-track-bring-me-horizon

yeah, lots of good specific info there. Wish i had it 3 weeks ago…cuz i aint going back and starting over on this mix lol. (next time ill google that sort of stuff)

[Jon-Jon]

lets go one more time. many small changes. Slowed API 2 bus comp to slowest attack.
maybe snare too loud in parts like ending vamp?

gotta turn it in tomorrow. In any case i think its right much better than the Karnivool mix…then again I think maybe it was an easier mix, but hopefully im getting better too

Mix 3

[terryhesticles]

It seems to lack the excitement and energy of the reference mix, due to your weak kick/snare combo, especially noticeable through the chorus’s.
The kick is audible, but doesn’t really cut through the mix with any real impact. It’s just kinda there, as opposed to being a driving force behind the rhythm.
The side-chaining of the original kick probably helped in this area.
Guitars feel quite thin through the chorus sections, and I found the ‘washing’ cymbal (in the chorus) abrasive and overbearing.
There’s no real satisfying payoff in those two main hook areas 1:14 & 3:18 imo. It’s more like getting bashed in the cerebral cortex with cymbals and not much else.

[Jon-Jon]

It seems to lack the excitement and energy of the reference mix, due to your weak kick/snare combo, especially noticeable through the chorus’s.
The kick is audible, but doesn’t really cut through the mix with any real impact. It’s just kinda there, as opposed to being a driving force behind the rhythm.
The side-chaining of the original kick probably helped in this area.
Guitars feel quite thin through the chorus sections, and I found the ‘washing’ cymbal (in the chorus) abrasive and overbearing.
There’s no real satisfying payoff in those two main hook areas 1:14 & 3:18 imo. It’s more like getting bashed in the cerebral cortex with cymbals and not much else.

just to be sure, we are talking about mix 3?

[terryhesticles]

Yep mix 3.

[Jon-Jon]

It seems to lack the excitement and energy of the reference mix, due to your weak kick/snare combo, especially noticeable through the chorus’s.
The kick is audible, but doesn’t really cut through the mix with any real impact. It’s just kinda there, as opposed to being a driving force behind the rhythm.
The side-chaining of the original kick probably helped in this area.
Guitars feel quite thin through the chorus sections, and I found the ‘washing’ cymbal (in the chorus) abrasive and overbearing.
There’s no real satisfying payoff in those two main hook areas 1:14 & 3:18 imo. It’s more like getting bashed in the cerebral cortex with cymbals and not much else.

Try this one

Mix 4

I might do one more, checking for the kick being masked

[terryhesticles]

A significant step in the right direction. Not that you’re trying to recreate the reference, but it would have been nice to hear some pumping from the kick side-chain to make the mix feel slightly more musical, especially in a crossover genre of this type. Could be worth experimenting with.

[Jon-Jon]

A significant step in the right direction.

im working on sidechaining some kick stuff. there is a lot of stuff down in the 50-60 range…synths, bass, gtr

[Jon-Jon]

its weird. ive sidechained several thingsbut simply can NOT get a sidechain to work on any of the guitars. im assuming it has something to do with them being under 3 busses. the 3 main guitar tracks are under “main guitar” then “total guitars” then “instruments” folders and i cant get a sidechain to work lol

[Jon-Jon]

Setup sidechains on kick and lead vocals. Some subtractive EQ to clear out some 50-60hz for kick

Mix 5

[Jon-Jon]

ok, many many small changes. Went thru and really cleared out a lot of the hiss up around 15k and up etc

here are 2 chorus snippets, first one with FG-Red on master buss, second one with VComp. Neither one doing a whole lot. Both going into an L3 which again is pretty mild

FG-Red

VComp

any preference? 2nd one was printed a bit louder, evidently pushing into the l3 harder…which was set at about.6 limit

OR…how about one with NO master bus compression. (though it still has the API 2500 on the 2 bus as the previous examples did…doing about 1db GR

This is just straight into the L3 on the master bus…barely pushing into the L3

[terryhesticles]

Third one for my money.
You’ve got a pretty excessive amount of body in that snare which doesn’t make for a very pleasant listen, some hits are definitely worse than others.
I made a couple of surgical notch cuts, one at 180Hz -6db and the other at 210Hz -7.5db, and as you can hear, there’s still shitloads of body left. I’d be looking elsewhere to get that snare to cut, definitely needs a lift higher up, possibly 4-5k area for slap.

[Jon-Jon]

ive had to fight the snare the whole time because it keep wanting to sound like a hand clap. Gimme minute ill try some cuts

[terryhesticles]

ive had to fight the snare the whole time because it keep wanting to sound like a hand clap. Gimme minute ill try some cuts

You might be looking in the wrong place, I think. All that bottom is probably half your struggle.

[Jon-Jon]

ive had to fight the snare the whole time because it keep wanting to sound like a hand clap. Gimme minute ill try some cuts

You might be looking in the wrong place, I think. All that bottom is probably half your struggle.

listen how weak the snare is in the verse…imagine cutting more 180-200 here. this already sounds like a hand clap

and its not really even the snare…its some of the dumb layered crap lol

ha. listen to this. here it is WITHOUT the stupid “tribal chilll” in the verse. thats where the stupid handclap vibe is coming from

[terryhesticles]

listen how weak the snare is in the verse…imagine cutting more 180-200 here. this already sounds like a hand clap

I wouldn’t go so far as to call it “weak” through here. I actually think within the context of that section it’s sounds pretty good.

ha. listen to this. here it is WITHOUT the stupid “tribal chilll” in the verse. thats where the stupid handclap vibe is coming from

Yeah, that handclap element might well be your issue although it’s a little hard to tell without hearing it solo’d. That snare sounds really nice on it’s own. Can you possibly make a fairly big high pass on the handclap and use it more to enhance/fortify the top end of your snare, as opposed to shitting up all that bottom end?