Bash please, Getting back on the horse

Bash please, Getting back on the horse
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No rest for the wicked, right?

Bash this little instrumental jam please. Im going for something vaguely in the realm of Black Label Society or any number of other similar bands

I did briefly reference a Black Label Society song “by hand”, not using Equivocate. I still need to work hard on my referencing game because I had a wrong setup that made it too hard to flip back and forth so i didnt do too much of it lol

Bash all aspects. No kid gloves. levels, tones, dimensions, whatever

Let me know what you think

Doesnt really have a name…the name of the drum pattern is “evening” which is ez drummers way of letting you know its based on “even flow” lol

“Evening” 100bpm

Mix 2, different kick and snare, much less compression overall

mix 3, added about 3db of 200hz to the snare


The snare sounds awesome. Is the kick a touch too loud?


I think it actually sounds really good, The only thing I can slightly find is the kick seems a tad loud and the guitar just a wee low. But I am not a heavy music kind of guy so that may be the total sound that works in that genre. I think it sounds very polished over all.



Well typically I hear things along the lines up “your kick is buried worse than Jimmy Hoffa” so im trying to get it out there a bit. You r probably right though, may have overcooked it a bit


Kick is too loud i think


Everything seems to be present in the mix, but the big turn off for me is that snare sound. Super compressed and very unnatural. Maybe that was your intent but I can’t get my head around it.


well for me to have an actual specific intent and be able to follow it thru would require me to be a whole lot better than I currently am hehe

How to get a big powerful sound without having things really compressed is something Im not too experienced with yet. I dont think ive ever done a recording that would be called ‘open’. They all get pretty compressed.

Here is the original snare (and kick) sound without any compression on it…though it is still going thru several layers of saturation

these would be some of the ref sounds id like to get in the ballpark of. How would you define these snares etc?


The thing to notice about all those snares above is they’re still allowed to ring out and decay to a certain degree. Your treated snare is being cut off very abruptly which adds to the unnatural feel. Is that a gate on there or just the comp causing this?
Listening to your uncompressed snare, I’d be looking to an eq boost at around 600K for a bit more of the ring and smack to help bring it up on top of the mix a bit more, and maybe carve out a bit of a notch at 200hz to clean up some of that resonance.
I really think the ‘less is more’ approach in regards to that snare comp might be more beneficial.


nah, no gate.

i think its going thru 6 compressors all told though lol. Though they are all parallel some as low as 15% processed but most at 50%. Snare track—>drum buss---->2 buss. Thats 3 levels of compression and then the master track itself would actually have 3 levels altogether if u count it having a compressor set at only 15% mix, then an FG-Red set at about 80% mix then at the end of the line is a waves L2 lol

Pretty much all of them are going to be slow attack, fast release


Ok. Good song to take a step backwards in order to move forward.

Does EZ drummer allow you to break the kit pieces into multiple busses? Can you get your kicks, snares, OH and room all isolated from each other on individual faders on your DAW?

Go through EZ drummer and check to see that every single effect in that software itself is completely disabled. You need to start with just the completely raw sound.

That doesn’t sound anywhere close to dry.

I would remove that saturation for now. Are you SURE there isn’t any compression that EZ drummer is applying? Check the direct channels for the kit pieces, check the master, check the busses inside the EZ mixer. Turn it ALL off.

You will get a better fuller thicker clearer sound if you use one or two compressors on various drums kit pieces and tune the compressors correctly. Best to leave compressors at 100%. Don’t mess with parallel for now. Leave all compression off your drum bus and off your 2 bus. GET RID OF THAT FG RED AND THAT L2. TURN THOSE FUCKING THINGS OFF!! PLEASE!!! Its VERY important for you right now to not mess with 2 bus compression.

That defeats the purpose of stacking compressors.

Look man, its great that you’re experimenting with this stuff. No harm in that. There is no wrong way to stack compressors, but there is technique in that stuff.

Try 2 compressors on a snare. Fast and fast first. Then medium and slow second.

But this is assuming you removed all compression from the snare on EZ itself. If there’s any compression left on the EZ snare, then you just screwed yourself. That compressor will probably end up working against whatever you do it afterwards.


I always break ez drummer down to individual isolated tracks.

In EXD there r 2 basic deals with snares afaik. Some are more or less bare BUT it also depends on which mixer you are using. (which expansion pack). I dont know that any of them are really BARE because they were probably recorded with compression on the way in and thru preamps etc

On the other hand some arent even claiming to be bare. They are already processed and would have names like “big crack snare” or “death snare” lol

While I generally use the bare ones like a black beauty or whatever, this particular one happens to already be processed. So you are correct its not a naked snare. No rhyme or reason, it just happened to be the snare I had on that kit

The “saturation” is just Slate VCC stuff with the drive set pretty mild and sometimes I run stuff thru the Slate tube preamps at like 50% mix. There is nothing like decapitator or Gclip

why on Earth would I not use 2 buss compression? lol What would be the reason behind that? just to limit the variables?

Ill check back 2moro, way past bedtime lol

Peace, JJ


Ok. that sounds pretty safe. I think the Slate VCC is one of his better plugins and its pretty mild.

Yeah. Exactly. Its very possible to get a mix to balance nicely without the a bus comp. And a 2bus comp can complicate peoples ability to give feedback on certain elements of the drums.

Again, nothing wrong with experimenting with it. But on something you’re trying to tackle start to finish, I would leave it bypassed up until the very end. Then turn it on and dial it in.


@Jon-Jon, What plugin libraries do you have? I can give you some quick ideas on drum compression if I know what you have available.


Reaper stuff of course

Slate everything

Waves platinum

I do struggle a bit conceptually as far as knowing when things occur in the mix process. For instance, I hear lots of people say they start with either the kick or snare. Ok, fine. But are they going for something close to the final sound right away?

In other words lets say they start with kick and they do EQ, maybe put Slate VCC, layer a couple compressors etc…are they then 99% done with snare as far as loudness and everything? or are things going to have to be built up more along the way thru the busses etc?

for instance my mixes of late have only been, say, to 80-85% loudness etc until the master track where Id have maybe an FG-Red or a Slate FG-Stress for the final loudness build up

Ive used busses and things gradually get louder as they go. Of course as you say the drawback is the complexity and loss of control. for instance im trying to learn how to “place” instruments in the front to back field not only with EQ and level but also with attack and release times but once I have several layers of compression going it gets impossible to keep track of whats going on

Another related weakness of mine is that so far I cant seem to do anything resembling an “open” mix. Mine quickly get congested and very compressed. of course I like that heavy and thick sound to a degree but id also like to be able to do a more sparse mix where every element has its own little space and where one can still hear some “air” in the mix

Im pretty sure thats related to the way I layer compression etc

Peace, JJ


The Karnivool track is a good illustration of some of the weaknesses in my current methodology. The toms in the intro on the original recording so so freaking massive and intimidating that Id probably find it hard to even get in the ballpark without going ahead and mixing into some buss compression on top of whatever I put on the toms themselves

of course it also leads up to my mixes being too dense as I already stated


Good. Waves has a free Bricasti Reverb download with this. Do you have it installed?

The C4, Vitamin, Doubler, MV2, PS22, Ax, Rvox, Ultrapitch, S1 and Tuner are all plugins that can not be cloned or mimicked with Slate plugins. The One Knob driver is fairly unique, as tacky as it might seem.

The V series are Neve clones, any of the Waves Delays when used as a single delay can probably be swapped with the Slate Delay, but you will probably need one of the three options from Waves if you need complex control over multiple timed repeats on the same source. The De-essers can go either way.

I would keep my eye out for sales and snag the Waves CLA classic compressor bundle when it goes on sale, or when the 1176, LA3, and LA2 drop to $29 each. The Blue and Blackface 1176’s look similar, but they do not sound anything like them, and the attack and release controls act really bizarre. An 1176 is the heart and soul of any drum mix, and has been for decades. That little red FG 401 mutt and the Slate Distressor are incredibly useful.

The first stage is usually to get everything managed and under control. Its to establish a starting point where your core elements are even, balanced, and leveled. So your if you have 3 kick samples like you had in the other track, I do one of two things. Build all 3 into a functional balanced kick sound. Or pick my primary kick sound of the 3 samples then add the other 2 into it later to supplement it as the mix progresses.

It depends on how you structure. If I’m running a parallel bus or a ‘crush’ bus as CLA calls it, I go as easy as possible on the source channels and let the parallel compressor do the heavy lifting. Some people don’t route their kick to the parallel drum bus because they want to control it separately. For just starting out, I would recommend not using a parallel drum bus at all. Maybe just see what you can do with either a kick drum subgroup and get it sounding as good as you can. Then try the same with a snare. Send all snare samples, and the top and bottom snare all to one single snare channel and see what you can do with it.

?? Are you talking about your 2 bus??? NEVER use a Distressor on your 2 bus. Period. Other than that, yes, its normal to have a 2 bus limiter adding a lot to your volume. Just leave it off when your mixing because the attack and release of the compressors on the channels are easier to hear when the limiter is not engaged.

Use your meters to help manage this. Down the road you can use a summing mixer to offset this, but I wouldn’t mess with that for now.

Again, stop layering compressors and just try to keep it at 1-2. I’m not sure why you keep coming back to this.

No shit. Its because right now you’re building a house and throwing 2x4’s all over the place with no clue why you’re putting them there. Then when you have to place a roof on the ceiling, you’re finding out it it doesn’t fit, so therefore you go back and start removing studs and tearing out sections of walls to add windows and doors. Basically your guessing at your foundation and paying for it later by having to do major restructuring.

Duhh dude!! Check your compression.

Right. Wanting it to ‘breathe’. Air. Open. Clear. Spacious. First lets get those compressors working together then I’ll throw some new tricks your way. But here’s one thing. This is not purely a function of HF management. Hi end does not equal open. There are a ton of other ways to add clarity and give that mix room to breathe. But they won’t help one bit until the compressor issue is addressed.

For the third or fourth time, manage the toms by managing the overheads.


Yup, this gets the juices flowing. Not sure about the slow break with this tho. Almost sounds like two different songs. Very well done


mix 2

different kick, different snare, much less compression overall

and 5 minutes later mix 3 lol. added some 200hz to the snare for punch


Can you post that without the guitar?


Hey guys. I’m stumped. Is it the drum samples he’s using that are giving him problems?? Does anyone have EZ drummer? Is that what EZ sounds like??