Hi again everyone. I made a few changes to this one that I posted before here:
It’s a little change to part of the verse melody and later in the way the last hook transitions into the bridge.
Keen to get some feedback as to whether this is better/worse/indifferent to the first draft.
Thanks in advance for your help!
I think this sounds good. I guess I’d say that I’m indifferent to the change because I like both versions.
I A/B listened and both work really well. The new one with the vocals starting on beat 1 might flow a little smoother… but the original with the vocal starting on 3 is cool too. Not sure I like one better than the other. I think I enjoyed the new version a little more due being a little familiar with it already. I knew the ear candy was coming. 
Cool, thanks Al.
Thanks Jamieson - the novelty of the new, maybe?
sounding nice. I feel like the flow of the first one it just has a little more of a laid back vibe. no wait i like this new one. ah screw it I like them both.
The verse melody change works well but the overall impact on the song is negligible. I often make slightly differing vocal melodies and phrasing in each verse because I’m unsure of which vocal melody (and attitude) is better. I think it would be a good idea to use both your ideas so that each verse has a little unique sound to it’s own.
I searched for that transition but I couldn’t find it. Can you tell me what time it’s located at ?
Haha - Nothing I love more than a decisive answer! 
Good point - that could work as well!
It’s the one at 2:16 - I think that’s the change that Bob @StylesBitchley was referring to in his suggestion on the previous thread.
Thanks for the input guys - much appreciated! I think at present, I’m leaning towards the original melody for the verses, but I like the change in the transition at 2:16.
sorry late to the party, heard both versions. Leaning towards the original one yes. I do notice that you fixed the “To turn” issue , though it was only a minor issue in the first one, I think slight automation and compression can smooth out the sharp edges around those consonants. Other than that, I do like the original one slightly better.
Just FYI, that was the transition I was talking about. I think it helps, but it is more subtle than I was suggesting due to my inability to describe it properly.
For fun, just think about how many beats of silence you could handle before the drum fill. I think it would be twice as long, for the full FF jarring effect. Any method of setting up the drama of the next section would emphasize how truly great that section is.
(Like the silence just before you throw a huge right hook at the guy who insulted your wife in front of you). Silence…Wham.
It’s beautiful the way it is, but it could be beautifuller.
Lets see if I can make points here. I’ve done so well as of late. I HATE YOUR GUITAR PLAYING…makes me sick to hear this after listening to my last song attempt. Seriously, some of those runs were scary good. I think one has to weigh if you want to hear more guitar playing or singing, lyrics/story telling. I like both and seeing that you can sing that well, I am leaning more in that direction. When you take off on a lead, I feel like I am waiting too long to get back to you. Does the three minute song limit apply? I know personal choice there. I think the lead at 4:20 to 4:35 ish would be a good intro for example???
I guess it is easier to just keep one’s comments on middle ground. I revise my post to ignore all previous. Just wanted to know how much EQ was applied to your vox to have it cut thru that well?? ha ha Good stuff
Ah, I see - Thanks, I’ll give that a try.
Thanks, but I feel really out of practice. I haven’t played live for ages. I try to play a little bit when I get spare time, but it mostly ends up being when I’m recording only.
Well, I have to say, while I don’t really rate myself as a guitarist these days, I rate myself even less as a singer. Nevertheless, I’m a big proponent of the short, sharp pop song format. I think there is definitely a fine art to making a statement in 3 and a half minutes or less… But I was trying to be a little more ambitious here…
I get where you’re coming from. In fact, I think I couldvery easily make 2 versions of the song - One that includes the middle instrumental bit, and one that doesn’t… A little bit like how the album version and the radio version of Gary Moore’s “Still Got the Blues” were just different edits of the same song.
The song started life as an instrumental. The words came later because of the feeling the melody suggested. The instrumental part was an attempt to take the listener on a journey beyond the vocal narrative, which kind of ends in an unresolved way, so hopefully the instrumental part helps the listener draw their own conclusions.
As I stated at the outset of the other thread about this track, I felt that without the middle instrumental bit, the song was a bit one-dimensional emotionally - a bit maudlin.
Not a tonne of eq on the vocal - mainly high pass filter, a couple of cuts in the low mids, bit of a high mid push around 4k and a high shelf lift. With a track like this that is fairly sparse musically, it’s not difficult to get the vocal to cut through. It’s mainly just a matter of getting the dynamics really tightly controlled with astute compression.
Thanks for your comments, observations and suggestions - much appreciated!
Glad you took that well. I want to know everything about what folks are thinking of my tracks. I was a basketball coach and told my assistant to keep firing info in my ear. I remember one tournament game where we had a 15 point lead at half time. My assistant said coach they have to press to get back in the game. I said no one ever presses us. He said exactly. He saved our butts and they did press. We won because of him and only by three points. I still wanna hear and don’t sugar coat it.
There are people that can sing notes on key and there are singers. You know right off. We have three out of four in our band that can sing notes and only one of those is a true singer. Nope it is not me. I do mostly harmonies. Your voice is one that just works. I think you might want to revisit that. Also there is no excuse for you not playing anymore either, ha ha
Thanks for the vox clarity tips.
Andrew, you’re a great guitar player. Live and recording are different animals, that’s all. Live you can just go for it once you’re comfortable. I used to love just getting into the autopilot mode where it felt more like channeling than conscious playing, and of course that happens more when you are comfortable.
Recording to me is harder due to self criticism and over analyzing. I redo parts for hours sometimes trying to perfect things that should be spontaneous, and never feel like I got it right. I almost never comp a solo part, I just play the whole thing until I’m fairly satisfied with it.
Live to me is 90% let it rip and ignore minor flubs, recording is a six string colonoscopy.
Paul, I have first hand experience with your voice. I love your voice and your singing. Personally I dont see the difference between singers and people who can sing on key. There are many professional singers who cant keep key in live performances , despite there being a live autotune now. ( cough live Grammy performances)
If by singer you mean “showmanship” then perhaps I agree. Not every singer is a showman but that requirement is slowly fading away as well
Hi Michelle. I guess some singers just draw me in. I have been around a lot of bands and most that have great potential just fail with a poor lead singer. Not always due to pitch. Sometimes that they just don’t project and sometimes there is just no character to their voice. Taylor Swift live is scary for pitch. She must have stock in Melodyne. ha ha Thanks for the strings for my song. Folks that have listened know they are the real deal:)
You are likely correct. I believe I never really did develop an ear for finer nuances of Vocal deliveries… such as character and projection. To me if a singer is focused and delivering the right notes with the right emotion - good enough for me because I do most my listening without watching the singer and listening to the composition as a whole.
Growing up in an instrument heavy environment, I still find myself listening to every single aspect of the song - every single harmony, every string, every pluck and every instrument involved that vocal part becomes just another instrument for me (composer’s curse).
Most of the times if the vocals are over-delivered with heavy articulations or vocalizations, often in a sub-par way, I feel like they just get in the way of my listening lol. I just cant see vocals in a different light than the composition as a whole. For that reason I believe I am not easily able to appreciate most of today’s popular songs and gravitate mostly towards listening to instrumentals and scores.
I think I get what you’re saying - that’s why I keep coming back to BTR to get input on my tracks.
Not sure what you’re getting at here when you say “you might want to revisit that”
I didn’t say I didn’t play anymore… I just said I haven’t played live recently and that I don’t play as much as I’d like to. I’ll play every opportunity I get. I just don’t get many opportunities, as I have other priorities to juggle.
Yeah, I definitely came to grips with that concept some time ago, but I still have the same struggle as you when recording my playing. I often find it’s best for me to lay down a lead “like I just don’t care”, then come back to it in a few days. Often after a few days break, I’m not as critical of the minutiae.
Sometimes I’ll comp. Sometimes I’ll comp together a “map” of a solo, then learn it and record it in one take if possible. Sometimes it’s one take, sometimes it’s many takes. Sometimes I drop in and fix some bum notes. I try not to be overly precious about being “authentic”, since a recording is, of itself a fabrication by nature.
Haha - amen! I love that imagery!
There needs to be a t-shirt!
The thing that bugs me is when I play something off-the-cuff that sounds cool, and then I try to reproduce it for a ‘real take’ it all falls apart. I lose all the spontaneity. Heck, I’ll be lucky to even play it again 'cuz it was probably a lucky mistake in the first place!
The guitar parts here have that cool, confident yet spontaneous feel. 
Ditto. I just tried to tame some of the feedback on a rock song I am working on and ruined the track. I hear ya Oh yeah, we officially hijacked this thread. so sorry
It’s always a really difficult balancing act. I’ve kind of got to the place where I realise that of itself, the act of composing is basically improvisation - albeit very slow moving improvisation. 
Looking forward to hearing that! Turn it up! 