Why Are the Big Boys Better Than Us?

Recording, Mixing and Producing
#21

I do not know of a big name ~MIX~ engineer that micro edits their own sessions, and can’t afford an assistant to do it for them. They don’t touch the session until the micro editing is done for them.

??? Hes a producer. Of course he’s going to edit. And he’s gets paid significantly less than his overrated mix engineer counterparts.

Not if their assistants are worth their weight in water.

Look at how things work at MWTM in France. An engineer won’t even throw someones sessions up on the Neve to critique it and demo it until it is MIX READY. That means all the tuning, take comping, fades, labels, all done ahead of time.

What are you talking about? If you want an assistant to edit and prep a mix in Pro Tools, they need pro tools. If you want the signal chain pre-routed to certain plugin chains, they need to have access to those plugins. If you want something autotune, they need an autotune, and if you want them to do it in another room on an editing station, they need a computer. Want them to do it from their house and upload edits to your cloud server repository? That takes gear.

Basically, if someone is willing to invest in more tools, to allow others to better enable others to work with them and for them, so they can do what they do best, they ought not complain about being worn out when they finally get to the mix.

If someone is unwilling to study at the workflow and infrastructure of an established mixing facility and try to understand why their turnover time is so remarkable, then ought to to complain about being unable to duplicate the process.

3 words.
farm. it. out.

#22

Get. a. grip.

I’m a one-man operation.

#23

Well then you’re being unrealistic. You’re wondering why you get worn out doing the same job that three to five guys do in a huge studio, then asking why you’re not getting the same results.

If this is really the case, and you don’t want to work at scaling and expanding, it’d be better to cut your losses and just not attempt to compete in that market, though your OP sounded as if you aspired to. There’s nothing wrong with that. I have no desire to compete with triple A game audio designers anytime soon.

#24

There are basketball and hockey players that are just as capable of hitting a baseball over an outfield fence as a pro baseball player is. They can also run just as fast and have equal eye-hand coordination. The difference is the pro baseball player can hit the ball consistently under different and much more challenging circumstances. On the Produce Like A Pro site, I’ve seen no namers turn over mixes of Warrens own songs that are better than his. Outmixing a name engineer 1 out of 20 times after 3 weeks of trial and error doesn’t mean you’re on his level.

So is this what you’re saying? -> Its not about spending more time, its about getting more done in less time?

I do agree. Still, in what possible scenario does this not come down to gear (and assistants) speeding up workflow?

#25

Absolutely. If a piece of gear makes you more efficient,then there’s no real way to argue against that.

The only gear talk that bugs me is the “that gear sucks and you’ll never sound good until you upgrade” junk that seems to dominate gear talk.

It’s not expensive gear that’s bad, it’s the way inexperienced and insecure people talk about expensive gear

4 Likes
#26

My thing is time. I wish I had more time to devote to recording and learning about it. At best I’m a weekend warrior and at that only when there are no necessary home renovations to be done or as now University studies which have scooped up my weekends between now and next May.
Last night I listened to some unfinished tune of mine as I downloaded some vst drum sets from Cubase (sale 50%). and as I stared at the download window listening, I found I could improve this and that in this song or another. I’m of the impression that with recording music it never ends. if you let some time strech out between songs and later go over the song againyou’ll find it could be touch it up a bit again. Which is OK for me I don’t have a deadline to meet. I record because I find it interesting and challenging. But I do wish I had more free time to really get good at it and get something done - finished product. I’d like that. I have 40 songs all started, nothing finished. I think I could kick ass if I did.
Anyways, time will come.

#27

Isn’t that part of the issue though? If the issue is that you don’t have the patience or stamina or whatever to finish a mix to its full potential, being a one man operation is probably one of the key factors in that. I’m not saying that hiring someone is the best solution, but if there’s a clear problem, the best course of action should be to find a solution to that problem.

Some suggestions have been offered. It’s likely none of them are the best solution, but I think they are at least worth exploring. But stating that you are a one man operation as if it’s an eternal constant isn’t going to solve any problems.

1 Like
#28

It bothers the hell out of me too. When I said it comes down to gear, I mean is faster tools in your primary room and multiple editing rigs that feed and enhance the workflow in the main room. “That gear sucks and you’ll never sound good until you upgrade” is a whole different statement based on an entirely different premise.

By the way, Todd AO… biggest studio in California…I got the gear list. Take a guess how many Pro Tools rigs they had in that facility?

They listed every single system with the processor and ram specs. I started counting them one at a time thinking they’d have 60 or 70. I just quit counting when half way through their list and I was already over 120.

Its pretty mind blowing to think of workflow on that scale but they were the best around at what they did for 60 some years.

So yes, you wanna talk about big boys doing stuff you and I can’t? They were the biggest of the big. All about workflow, all about gear, and all about scale.

1 Like
#29

Are you acquainted with my work? If not, you’re not in a position to direct that towards me.

#30

I don’t know - is it? This is a home recording forum. The vast majority of us are, by definition, one man operations. Many of us strive to compete with the big boys in terms of quality. If we’re now saying ‘forget it boy, you’ll never get there unless you buy tons of expensive gear and take on loads of extra staff’, then what is the point of the forum?

As I said, my problem is signing a recording off too early, usually as a result of fatigue/impatience/call-it-what-you-will. There could be any number of reasons for that state of affairs. I’m not one for conventional wisdom, I will always challenge it if I don’t see the logic of it at face value. In that respect, I don’t really care what the big boys actually do. All I know is, if I could either speed up my workflow even more, or find a some more stamina, or both, I could produce better recordings.

As a sidenote, even speeding up the workflow is frowned upon in some circles. If you let people know about your latest method for quick results somebody is bound to come along and accuse you of cookie cutter mixes.

#31

I assume you mean gold.

I just wanted to come back to this one. For me, editing is crucial, if a mix engineer/producer/whatever asks someone else to do it, how does that person know what to edit and what to automate? Surely editing and automating is mixing? Anyone can slap on some compression and a bit of reverb, but the editing and automating decisions are what it’s all about, they define the mix at the most basic of levels.

#32

re-reading the #1 post , it states “i dont think its gear”. gear is obtainable these days and the old days of Reel to Reels and consoles isnt needed for Two Tracking recordings and the DAW is good to go.

So is it tracking? maybe “rewind” and do a simple Two Track type song with minimal mixing of instruments…very simple recording and then see if your HR version can even accomplish this basic 2 track- vocal and acoustic (with minor overdubs). Do a cover of anyones commercial simple success tune but simple recording then compare your version to volume, tones etc… kind of a walk before you run approach? If you cant match a simple two track song then doing a 24 track song isnt going to fly.

Is it Mixing or Mastering?
Maybe partition your process-
Maybe send one version out to be pro -mixed. (your tracking, your mastering)
then send one version out to be mastered…(your tracking, your mixing)
this might bring into focus what stage of the process is needing work or is failing.

as for burn out, stamina …lol…geez I dont even do anything anymore. the candle went out. Example of burn out and stamina…my roof was done on the house by a crew who were done in one afternoon. …the neighbor had a two man crew who took days. HR with a one man empire…good luck. I usually am burnt out on my tune after tracking it for an hour. the buzz dies quickly.

gear is huge, expertise huge…less burn out… thats the Big Boy difference isnt it?

I hate car analogys, but can we build a INDY 500 race car in the garage? probably not.
There is another thing about sounding commercial I noticed is when I listen to string quartets its awesome sounding even HomeDone stuff, when I hear home spun Rap its commercial sounding, but when I hear bands with drums, bass, guitars and vocals from HR it sounds ok.often not like the Big Boys…
So is genre a big player? yes… imo.

a couple good mics and good channel strips should allow good tracking.

mixing…monitoring, rooms, eq adjustments, producing the tune into exciting bridges and overdubbing sounds is really the big one isnt it? this is the big step right?

then mastering shouldnt be polishing a turd but can bring it up a level.

i need more coffee to think about this Big Boy vs HR thing…lol

1 Like
#33

I did not read everyone’s replies so forgive me if someone already said this.

One of the biggest differences that I see in pro recordings is the attention to tracking and editing. When you have well-edited parts mixes come together far easier. I separate editing and mixing. I do them on different days.

1 Like
#34

It’s a case of having to. There aren’t enough hours in one day.

#35

That wasn’t directed at you. And no, I’m not acquainted with your work.

#36

That’s a crucial bit as far as I can see… so many micro decisions that can impact hugely on the end result. If such things are to be delegated, there needs to be someone who is skilled to delegate to… and in order for them to be adequately skilled, they would need paying and it’s that cycle of small-business-growth.

2 Likes
#37

That’s not what anyone is saying. Nobody here is a pro, but I’d say most of us are really good at what we do. Making acceptable sounding recordings on a small budget at a home studio. You’re complaining that the big boys are better than you, Boz offered you a solution to the problem you have with being fatigued easily. You don’t need to take it, no one is saying that you can’t get there, it’s just substantially harder with a low budget. If you’re fatigued easily then getting someone to help you makes a whole lot of sense to me. He didn’t say anything about an extra staff, just getting an assistant. It sounds to me like you just want to complain, don’t want a solution, and want to drag everyone down with you. If you don’t believe in yourself you’ll never get there, you sound like you WANT to fail. Attitude is everything.

Chill, dude. No one is out to get you. We’re all here to help and support each other by sharing our experiences and suggestions. If you don’t agree with what we have to say, then you don’t agree. We’re not out to attack you. Take our advice or leave it. No one is forcing you to do anything.

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#38

Really? What was the point in it then?

You’re making it up fella. Have you even read the thread through? You couldn’t be further from the truth.

Lol. What nonsense.

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#39

In my eyes you’ve proven you’re not capable of behaving in a community forum. If you didn’t want solutions, you shouldn’t have started the thread. He didn’t even tell you to hire anybody, he merely said that’s one solution to your piss poor attitude.

1 Like
#40

:cry:
My old man’s old man drove trucks as a young lad. According to labor laws, you had to set aside so much time for these truckers to sleep. The companies knew this, but they set deadlines that were impossible to make if they slept a wink. The truckers had to fake their logs for fake sleep times, and go nonstop for days to make the delivery on time so they didn’t get fired. They lived this way without anyone thanking them or without making any real money. If you don’t have the stamina to finish a mix to its potential, the best gear in the world isn’t going to make a difference. You’ve got to buckle down and mix the shit out of it. You’re in control of your destiny Apple Jacks 113. You’d be surprised what the mind can do when you set out to accomplish something.

1 Like