Okay, so I’m having a lot of difficulty with the drums. Very frustrating, actually. The thing I’m struggling with is the snare, mostly. Can’t seem to get it to quiet down. I listen to @ColdRoomStudio’s and @Jonathan’s mix and you guys are able to make it sit nicely, with a nice “slappy” sound. Very pleasant.
Mine still has too much of a ring to it and is so “thin.” I can get a decent sound out of my close snare mics, but in the OHs it’s already to loud. When I balance the rest of the OH kit, so that especially the cymbals and HH are where I want, then the snares are too loud. I can’t add it in in the close mics cuz it’s already too much.
I tried compressing them (CLA-76 after VCA in Omni), EQing, reading Andrews thread on what he did with the snares. I’m at a loss. Here’s my latest version. Ugh.
I’m feeling good about the rest of the mix (but welcome feedback) but would love some direction on that stupid snare.
I think it’s tamed now, I’m not noticing it like I did before. Now I think I’m hearing some pretty heavy compression on the drums, or at least the snare in parts. Did you do some parallel compression? I mostly noticed it about about 2:00-2:10 in that kind of quiet part.
What did you do with the synth? It sounds like you added some parts in the earlier part of the song or something. It almost sounds like guitar amp feedback at first. Is that added parts or did you tweak something that was already there? It’s kind of cool, but I’m so used to the basic tracks it was kind of surprising.
I can’t really critique the mix, as I am away from home for a long weekend, and I can’t listen on decent speakers…
Nevertheless, here are some suggestions:
Try a faster attack on the OH comp. Your goal is to get the snare to duck down in volume in the OH each time it hits
Check the phase relationship between the close mic and the OH. Sometimes eq and other processing can create phase problems that cause the snare to sound thin.
Adjust the eq on the OH so that it emphasises the sparky stuff in the high end. Then you won’t have to turn up the OH so high to get the right level of cymbals in your mix, and the snare in the OH can stay more tucked in
I’m tellin’ ya, I can’t get away with NOTHIN’! Good ear. Yes, I did more squashing of the OH (too much) and also added parallel comp on the close snares. I long for the day I can hear as you hear.
Not sure where you mean. No, I didn’t add anything. Only EQ and itsy-bitsy compression.
Okay, here are some clips (not whole song) after playing with @ColdRoomStudio’s suggestions (above). One is with gates on the kick, snare and toms to stop the bleed of the full band, and the second (same clip)is, per @vtr, bypassing all gates.
I’m heading out of town Thursday morning and won’t be back until Tuesday. So, tonight, or possibly tomorrow night, will likely be the last opportunity I have to make any changes to my mix before posting as an entry.
I’d love any last-minute feedback y’all might have on my last mix, should you feel so inclined.
Thanks for all the critique thus far. Been a true learning experience for me, esp the live drums thing.
(BTW, in case anyone’s interested, I’m flying into Milwaukee to visit family and for a reunion of sorts with my best friends from college – 40 years ago, BTW! – and then, wait for it…we’re all going to to Green Bay for my first Monday Night Football game! Packers vs. Lions! Yeah, baby!)
I think I need to listen to the track more (and I will), but here’s a couple of things that jumped out at me:
there’s a midrange thing on the vocals… looks to be around 850-900hz. It makes the vox sound really boxy.
drums definitely sound a bit crushed… that’s been discussed previously by people far more qualified than I so I won’t get into it… other than to ask, what are you trying to achieve with the compression?
I think you could get away with 1/2 to 1/3 of the processing you have on the overheads and still get a great sound. I tend to go something along these lines: Surgical EQ to correct issues, medium-ish (or less) compression and then a boosting EQ that’s maybe got some nice color to it. If I’m feeling fancy I’ll throw Oeksound Soothe in at the end just to tame any resonances my old-ass ears can’t hear. I think with this mix, I also used the OH as the foundation of the drum sounds, then filled in with the close mics… it’s easier to avoid things like the snare fighting the OH when you turn the OH up. Also consider the balance between the OH, the Room and the close mics… you can get a LOT of the snap from the OH and room, and worry more about the depth of the snare and any other high boosting with the close mics.
After looking at your snare processing, I’m thinking there has to be a phase problem somewhere. On the AD2 snare track, you’re boosting a ton at 142hz, on the snare top you’re boosting another ton at around 200hz, and it looks like you’re boosting the OH low end a bit on the Scheps Omni. With all the low end on that snare, each hit should cause some sort of seismic event. I certainly don’t think the snare sounds thin, but it doesn’t sound like those eq curves. My suggestion is check your AD2 snare against the live snare. Some folks will align them to the overheads but that doesn’t always result in something that sounds pleasing.
Watch the frequencies fighting for space in the chorus… I found some freqs in the vocals were getting masked by other instruments in spots in the chorus. The synth was definitely a culprit and I think the guitars may have been clashing a bit too. One approach is to find frequencies prominent to both and either EQ them out of the non-vocal instruments, or maybe multiband compression using the vocals as a sidechain. You’d be surprised at how much some subtle frequency ducking can bring something to the forefront. Another approach is to widen things out so the vocal comes straight up the middle without a lot of competition. Now, in this track that was the challenge… because most of the sources were mono it was a giant pain in the ass to achieve that.
Ok I just listened to the breakdown part with the toms and rim hits. There’s one thing you have to watch when using samples… once he starts doing rimshots the snare sound kinda dies because the sample isn’t being triggered (and wasn’t a rimshot sample anyways). I actually think the snare sound is good (with a bit more bottom end oomph I think will be great)… but am wondering if a lot of it comes from the AD sample. Nothing wrong with that, but maybe copy the snare top track, trim everything BUT the rimshot section and use another sample for that.
Some food for thought… as always, blah blah grain of salt blah blah…
I should mention though… I think the mix sounds good, it’s one of those things that needs some tweaks here and there and you’re off to the races!
Ooh. Great critique, Blair. Thank you for this. I’m planning on getting some mix time in tomorrow evening, but won’t have a ton of time cuz I’m needing to get some family time in 'fore I’m gone for a long weekend.
Even if I can’t incorporate all of this before the deadline, I’ll keep trying afterwards. Great input on the phase and on the AD2.
This song has been a major challenge for me. Vaughan has been helping me a ton via PM helping me develop an understanding of how to approach mixing live drums. (THANK YOU for that, Vaughan, BTW!). Very consistent with what you’re saying here.
One of the next things on my learning horizons is going to be how to use some mid-side processing, esp maybe to help the vocals stand out a bit more in the center. Would LOVE to know how y’all approach that.
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