I have a really hard time believing that there are people lurking in BTR just waiting for someone to post raw wav files so they can turn them into a commercial success. There are far easier ways to steal ideas than that.
I don’t think so either but it’s not impossible to fathom song sharks hunting for ideas on sites like these where the little guy won’t have the resources and finances to file a copyright infringement claim. If a song is very commercial I think it’s a legitimate concern for the writer. Now we can talk probability…the probability is very low that someone will steal your song or pieces of it…and if they do, it’s even less likely they will actually have commercial success with it.
Good points Stan.
Copyrights are not foolproof and they can be very difficult to enforce outside of your own country.
Not sure what you men by ‘foolproof’, a copyright is a copyright. But yeah, if you think that someone in another country is going to join this forum, listen to BTR tracks, then choose one of yours to plagiarise, and make a million out of it, you’re right to be concerned.
That’s really my dream in the first place. If I can get someone to steal one of my songs and sell a million, I’m pretty sure I’d be able to reach a settlement for a handsome sum, and the publicity of going to court to fight the big bad wolf would set my burgeoning career on fire. It would also validate that my plan for world dominance was on the right track.
Seriously though, I put stuff up here to see if anyone likes it, and because it would be dumb to put all that work in and be the only one to listen to it. At the start, all the bashing was good for me, good or bad, because it unveiled parts of the process I wasn’t familiar with, and improved my skill set. It also made me realize that to present some of my stuff properly, I was better off letting guys like Andrew mix songs for me if I felt they were good efforts that would suffer otherwise. Hopefully I’ll have time soon to learn how to get closer to where I need to be.
I have to agree with you on this one.
Very true as well.
You know you can simply ‘submit’ the song to said artists instead? Right?
haha. When you’re the king of the world, I’m sure that will be a nice mix engineer credit on Andrew’s resume
I’d say the simple solution is not posting it on the forum. If you need other engineers you know and trust to take a listen to it, drop box them a wav file and ask them to critique it. Some material that is intended to be commercially focused at a professional level probably shouldn’t get tossed around here. Not so much out of risk of it being stolen, but probably out of etiquette to the artist. I think its also good to not release rough mixes publicly. Probably depends on the focus and purpose of the recording. You think?
I know there have been numerous pro tracks posted, and that has worked out fine AFAIK. My understanding is that yes you would ask any involved parties if they are on board with you getting forum feedback on a track, that’s basic courtesy. One of the key aspects of this forum (and RR) would be a sense of trust among the leadership, members, and any other anonymous purveyors. Unfortunately, there is very little capacity to manage and measure trustworthiness of the system as a whole, so I can understand the hesitancy to take the risk. For example, you don’t even have to be logged in to download a posted audio file.
Yes, it’s all situational. I think anyone can post anything they would like advice or feedback on, just state the reason for the posting, and the desired direction for the feedback if possible. We’ve run the gamut from raw tracks to demo’s and rough mixes to spit-shined masterpieces. And there’s another aspect to that; this is a community, and it thrives on sharing and conversations, and indeed - building of trust. The only way to do that is interaction and dialog. Just don’t get attached to praise and criticism.
If you’re not going to post recordings to BTR for fear of plagiarism, what, then are you intending to do with these recordings? Keep them locked away for ever with nobody ever hearing them? I mean, the minute anybody anywhere hears one of your songs you have the potential issue of someone plagiarising or stealing it.
The whole point of copyright is not to ‘enforce’ it, there is nothing to ‘enforce’. If somebody uses your song, then you collect the rightful money that is owed to you, that’s how copyright works.
I came from GarageBand and Audiopolis, which were Blind Review sites. I reviewed a lot of songs over the years, and had a lot of my own reviewed. And since I am not that great as a one man band especially, I received a lot of negative reviews.
But I really did learn a lot in the process. I learned I liked some songs more than others regardless of the production. I learned I did not like some songs no matter how professional the production. I learned that some people actually liked some of my songs beyond the bad production, and most people had a hard time getting to the 30 second mark.
So I got to thinking about niche markets. Finding your audience. And I realized I have a tendency, beyond my inconsistent production, to not play a consistent style of music, which meant my niche would have to be those people who like eclectic variety heavy on the lyrics end and fraught with lo-fi production.
But I did, am still, improving in some departments. I’d say my production skills are much better now, thanks to all those reviews. I’d say my songwriting skills are too, but they are still all over the place.
And often I think my latest song is one of my greatest. And it takes a while for me to hear for myself why it isn’t. So one reason I will want to be bashed is because I like to know if anyone other than my mother likes the song.
It is a totally separate debate, but I consider my style to be fairly oddball experimental, and to me that means I don’t know if anyone will appreciate it or playlist it. I plan to share a brand new song I conceived of several years ago as part two of a larger project I did with Ingo. We did a 25 minute science fiction spoken word with a featured song that is anti-mainstream, but it was in my head and now it is uniquely real. Is it possibly commercially viable ever? Not likely. So why part two? Well, you never know what people will like. Tales of the Interstellar Fur Traders could be as valid a new TV series on the SyFy Channel as Sharknado.
The bottom line is even much more talented folks than I have to come up with the next great song, and the hit song is almost impossible. But here we listen. And for me it is exciting.
It sounds like you are progressing, so wherever you are right now is right where you are. I think an anonymous philosopher once said “Wherever you find yourself, that’s where you are.” If we encounter criticism that suggests we should be better than we are at the moment, that might be helpful or it might be unhelpful. It might motivate to improve, or be demoralizing. Forrest Gump’s mama said: “Life’s like a box of BTR, you never know what you’ll get.”
I guess that’s why I’m advocating to step back and take a sober look at what the critique is saying, release attachment to praise and criticism, and simply see what it being said that can help you move forward. Things you hadn’t considered or heard, or new ideas that might open up new possibilities and learning for you.
Was it Buckaroo Banzai? “No matter where you go… there you are.”
Well said, insightful and honest!
Probably. I couldn’t remember the source. I even wondered if I made it up myself.
This is a good topic, why do we post a song for bashing- for all of the above reasons, and because I believe we need to share of ourselves, we’re social creatures, some of us are more social than others and have no problem with socializing, and for others to share is stressful, being more solitary, I think there is something inherent in our instincts that prods us on to share and in some cases simply to survive. I love music and music is one form of expression I have learned to use to express myself. Water seeks its own level. If I can express myself to someone else who is also musical, I stand a better chance of being understood by that person in a way I can easily agree with (acceptance). Some folks go bowling. So bash this recording (me) Communication is a two way street - I can take it and I can give it. :beerbang:
It is an interesting way to get to know other people. And maybe revealing our musical “soul” can say much more about us than than our textual ramblings? I may have touched on this before, but I sometimes feel that when people are posting to BTR, they don’t give much info on their project or song, their goals, and what feedback they are looking for. On the other, if you give that, it might create preconceptions and alter the way that someone comments on the mix. That’s all part of the communication process.
You are correct in what you say, the communication will be affected either way, case in point. I just bashed a song (heavy metal type) The post had a lot of pre-info about it (I don’t remember the name of the song to mention it) and the reason for the repetitive lyrics. That information steered me to listen to the song with that intention in mind - it allowed me to understand what was trying to be portrayed and it worked. Normally I wouldn’t put much thought into that type of music and without the information my bash would have been somewhat negative in tone. I think more info is preferable. I think you have to develop that art.
Metalcore Maybe is the bash I’m refering to
This is why I give only the barest background info when I post a mix for bashing, I want to avoid any kind of preconceived notion other than having knowledge of what the lineup of instruments was. I figure that gives nothing away because if one was watching a live act, you’d know what instruments they were playing before they sounded a note.
Maybe the more “niche” a song or recording is, the more it can benefit from a fuller description? Or if specific problems are known, but asking for advice on addressing them?
Where something is more mainstream and just looking for any observations whatsoever, or not wanting to guide the conversation in any particular direction at first, I think that can make sense.