Also relevant is whether society wishes to provide a means for some proportion of prisoners to better themselves and have a reasonable chance of being a productive and constructive member of society after they are released. Taken to the logical extreme, the choice not to provide such a means might imply that once incarcerated, someone has no chance of being a “normal person” ever again. Caveat: violent criminals, those convicted of serious crimes, are not who I am talking about here. Those people really do need to be kept out of the general population.
I also fully agree that the point of being locked up is punishment. But I also believe that someone convicted of non-violent/non-heinous crimes ought not be permanently walled off from having any chance of returning to society.
How to do that, how to thread that needle? That’s the hard part…
It seems to me the distinction between mass murders and petty offenders is reasonable.
This dude kills 77 people and was placed in that high security prison where that recording studios is. Years later he sued Norway because they wouldn’t upgrade his playstion 2 to playstation 3, and they wouldn’t update the video game library. Its crazy that the courts took this lawsuit seriously. What’s even crazier is he won!
Can you imagine one of us murdering 77 people in a terrorist act then suing the US government for ‘inhuman prison practices’ because the prisons Waves update plan had expired?
If that’s true it’s another crazy example of today’s ‘social justice’ society. I don’t have the words to express the degree of my contempt for this bullshit.
Living in the lap of luxury with access to a top class recording studio and your own apartment, is not really incarceration (which by definition involves being locked up in a penal institution), and therefore not really punishment. The fact that the door is locked is simply not enough on its own for it be deemed sufficient punishment in my opinion. Try asking homeless people sleeping rough on the street if they’d like to go to this “prison”, I believe many would say yes.
In my view prison should be unpleasant enough for those released from it to swear never to go back there again.
And I don’t agree with rehabilitation. These people should be told to grow a pair of balls and accept responsibility for their own actions like the rest of us do. By ‘rehabilitating’ them we’re sending out a clear message that whatever crime they committed, it wasn’t their fault, it was someone else’s. In any case, it’s not as though rehabilitation even works to any great degree.
I do not agree that rehabilitation is equivalent to “not your fault”. It’s more, you fucked up, here’s your chance to change course and learn how to be a productive member of society (e.g., learning a trade, getting the equivalent of a college degree, etc)-- your chance to grow a pair.
I will respond with the tack you have taken in this thread Adrian-- what’s your evidence for this statement? “Presenting your opinion as pseudo-fact does not magically give it veracity, it just makes you look patronising” to quote yourself. Got data?
And to be clear, that mass murderer winning a case about his video games is totally outrageous!! I could not agree more on that front. Guy should be doing hard time, in a very unpleasant environment, for the rest of his natural life.
Studies out of NIMH seem to show that first person shooter games like Doom or Shadow Warrior 2 are supposed to help antisocial personality disorders and serial killers develop empathy.
On a more serious note, I’m certainly for humanitarian treatment of the prison population, and creating opportunities for rehabiliation, but wow, spending that kind of money on a luxury studion that they, or most of us, would never have access to in the free world seems over the top.
I’d also be curious to know what kind of controls they have over how a studio like that is used: e.g., terrorists using a first class studio like that to create first-class propagand to promote radical agenda – ISIS? Or, with the PS2/PS3 guy, what kind of games are played?
Enough for me. I wouldn’t have weighed in except Jonathan asked me about rehabiilitation of sociopaths/antisocial people. Outcome research isn’t very favorable (depending on how you define your goals), especially after certain lines have been crossed, beyond which it can be overwhelmingly painful to turn back (because that would mean facing what you’ve done).
OK, there are some data. Note that I drew no conclusions about whether it was a success or not, I merely requested some backup for your assertion, which you’ve now provided-- thanks. I also characterized what I believe is the intent of prison rehabilitation, again without drawing any conclusion or making any assertion about whether it was successful. Just so we’re clear.
I was making a funny. It was in response to your post #22 about the guy in prioson suing Norway cuz they wouldn’t update his PS2 to PS3, and update his videogame library. I was actually making a statement about a judge ruling in favor of a violent criminal having an updated video console and library to play games, the preponderance or most popular of which are violent games, when we know that violent games are associated with increased aggression and decreased empathy.
According to the American Psychological Association:
Violent video games are significantly associated with: increased aggressive behavior, thoughts, and affect; increased physiological arousal; and decreased prosocial (helping) behavior. [source]
Hence, my reference to Shadow Warrior 2, for example, if you’e not familiar with it:
I’d love to see the transcript of his lawyer’s argument to the judge, justifying how his rights were being violated by not having the latest and greatest in gaming. Not to mention that it would have been a state-appointed attorney. Man, you can’t make this stuff up!
Hm,m. On second thought, maybe a recording studio ain’t such a bad idea!
Music has sure brought peace to my soul! Ugh. Interesting discussion.
Dude…I’ve heard people attempt to make very serious attempts to argue that releasing inner aggression in a game decrease ones likelihood of committing violent crimes in real life. Of course these are the people that want to sell more video games.
And a lot church leaders in the 80’s thought that some rock and rap music lyrics were so bad they would cause people to commit murder. Remember when everyone in the religious community was scared to death of Marylin Manson in the 90s? I have no idea where the psychology and mental health community stands on that.
Others argue that games like Mortal Kombat are so comical and over-the-top that they have zero chance of effecting the mental/emotional state of any sane rational person. I have absolutely zero knowledge of this, which is why I figured I’d ask a guy with a doctorate in psychology lol.
I tried to look at the source, because I’m curious how they conducted the studies that concluded this. But its $35 to download it. Do you have an account with this journal by chance?
There has indeed been a good amount of controversy on this over the years, but I think I’d be safe in saying that most research that isn’t tainted by commercial interests or incentives seems to be less controversial these days, and we’re getting a more consistent picture of the impact these games have on aggressive and other behaviors. Seriously, check out the link in my last post. It’s a pretty concise and pretty decent article. It reviews the literature and is written in a “myth vs. fact” kind of narrative. It’s pretty interesting and well done.
Hah, so a young, broke aspiring producer should just commit a crime if he would like to spend a few years in a relatively nice residency program, honing his skills.
I don’t mind prisoners having access to fun/educational activities, but you’d think they would at least pretend to care about frugality here. Inexpensive gear isn’t even poor quality. Like, I think American prisons are pretty fucked up, but this is taking it too far in the other direction. Also I get almost all of my prison knowledge from Orange is the New Black so what do I really know.
Got data?
It was in response to your post 
