Piano Real vs Samples

[Emma]

However, the most telling thing (IMO) is the difference the real instrument makes to your performance - it’s easy to tell which inspires you more as a player!

I found this quite an insightful thought… and very true for me… I really struggle to have my music ‘flow’ on my digital stage piano as opposed to my real piano which responds quite differently and sings much more sweetly… it’s a compromise… also the small latency in a recording situation affects things, but the touch and the feel are powerful connectors to the music process…

[miked]

I think it’s pretty obvious which is the real piano and which is the samples.

Says the guy who put up the test and played the parts!

…So since I was one of the ones who asked for this test (stupidly) and for some reason I thought I’d be able to easily tell the difference (stupidly), I feel I should at least acknowledge that - Alicia’s Keys is pretty convincing!

I wish you had made this an anonymous poll… My wild-guess is that the real piano is… No. 2. Before I started second and third guessing myself, I thought the first had perhaps better clarity (?) and thought perhaps the 2nd had some resonances that I didn’t hear in the first. Then again…

Now to read the other comments and see how wrong I am!

[miked]

By the way, beautiful playing Boz!

This scene keeps running through my head for some reason.

…and I’d like to officially change my guess to the 1st as being the real piano. Especially after reading Andrew’s quoted comment above and re-listening for THAT. What a great insight. Yeah, number 1. Just like pretty much everyone else…

[Cristina]

Okay you have to tell us which is the real one. A lot of people say #2 and I thought it was #1! I have Alicia’s Keys, but I don’t know if I’ve ever used it… I should bust it out and see if I can tell which one it sounds like haha.

EDIT: OMG I thought I would be clever and just watch a demo of Alicia’s Keys to save me some time, and the freaking guy doing the demo for the official Native Instruments video, no joke, pronounces it like “Alisha’s Keys.” WTF WHO IS ALISHA. No seriously how did this get approved.

Anyway, now I’m not so convinced… hopefully the answer will someday be revealed…

[Sven]

Okay, I am with Miked here. I suspect a set-up.
Which is further fueled by the “real piano” being called a “Steiway”…
If we analyze that, we get “stay” your “why”… which is a further clue to something being suspect.
That said, the first track has far greater overtones and depth - and it would be my preferred “tool X” for producing a track.
So, if track two is the actual “Steiway” - can you please record yourself going to the piano, telling it that it is, in fact, a replicant?

S

[ColdRoomStudio]

Okay, I am with Miked here. I suspect a set-up.

You may want to check this thread first:

Piano test

I got a little tascam field recorder today, so I figured I’d give it a test run on the new piano. I used the built in XY mics on tht tascam along with 2 other mics. I just did a quick test just to see what it sounded like and to see if it would ever be worth using a real piano in place of just using MIDI. I’m still not sure. It’s fun to play, and there is something a little more raw feeling about a real piano recording. Maybe it’s just that some of the notes aren’t quite in tune. The pedal noises are sure a lot louder. But here it is. 4 mics and a little bit of EQ. http://indierecordingdepo…

[Sven]

that recording sounds GREAT !!
I wish I had taken the time to learn piano…

[Wicked]

That second recording…the low end is so full, at first that made me believe it was the real piano. But I’m almost thinking it’s too smooth and even. Seems like the second recording is a little less dynamic. Maybe these things mean that the first recording is the REAL piano and the second one is MIDI. The low end rumble on the final sustained chord of the song is very different on both recordings. The second recording has a very smooth tone with the root note dominating the sound on the very last chord of the song , but the first recording you can hear some discordance between the root note and that low 5th…(is that a low fifth?). It’s got that slightly out of tune piano thing going on.

I’m listening closely through headphones now…but in my earlier posts I was listening through my laptop speakers and I didn’t closely scrutinize the recordings…I simply thought that the second recording sounded more lower frequency-rich than the first recording.

I think the first recording is the real piano because…

1. I can hear the body of the piano (the little knocking sounds of the keys moving inside the piano and also maybe some foot pedal movement)

2. The second recording is TOO smoothly balanced across the duration of the track, both high and especially lower frequencies.

3. The snappy-plucky-spikey high notes on the first recording have a very similar sound
   to the initial recording that you let us hear a short while back , after you first got your 500 pound baby home.

4. The discordant (slightly out of tune) final chord in the first song, suggesting that it’s a real piano. Not sure, but the high, spikey note near the end might be a bit out of tune also.

Conclusion;

First recording is the Steinway
Second recording is MIDI

[Descent]

2nd was just a bit dull and too controlled, so 1st piano but can we just go back to talking about distorted guitar, all this piano talk just

[bozmillar]

However, the most telling thing (IMO) is the difference the real instrument makes to your performance - it’s easy to tell which inspires you more as a player!

This was surprising to me too. The I wonder how much of it is just that the velocity curve is do much different on my MIDI controller. The real piano sounds like I’m pounding as hard as I can.

subtleties of hold and release that weighted keyboards emulate but can’t fully replicate.

I wonder how much of it is that it can’t replicate it, or that the samples I use just tend not to try. I have heard sample libraries that are much more raw sounding than alicia’s keys, but I tend to find those harder to work with sometimes.

I wonder if a different sampled piano might sound more like the real thing? I feel like Alicia’s keys is meant to be in more of a pop context?

I considered that, but found that of all the sample libraries I have, Alicia’s Keys seems to feel the most natural when I play it. I like it waaaaaaay better than all the other kontakt pianos. I did mess with PianoTeq, which actually sounded way more natural in terms of tone and dynamics, but there is something about it that feels plastic about it. I hate that word, but it’s the only one I can use to describe it.

But really the bottom line here is how great it is to have a choice because they both would have something different to bring to a mix.

I think this is the conclusion I’ve definitely come to. They sound quite different, and I’m glad that they do.

[bozmillar]

EDIT: OMG I thought I would be clever and just watch a demo of Alicia’s Keys to save me some time, and the freaking guy doing the demo for the official Native Instruments video, no joke, pronounces it like “Alisha’s Keys.” WTF WHO IS ALISHA. No seriously how did this get approved.

[bozmillar]

I posted the answer in the top post.

[steban]

Well, I guessed wrong! And it is like the “Is it live or is it Memorex?” test, not scientific, but there is a difference, just not very easy to discern, even in a solo performance. Such fine playing, I might add, made both feel extremely real. I felt no shortness of emotion or expressiveness in either. To me, the piano has been digitized.

[Wicked]

Difficult… I first thought the second one being more mellow would be the real one (a lot of sampled piano’s tend to be bright, or at least have bright sounding presets to my ears). But the first recording is less perfect. The notes tend to blend more and some notes ring out a bit more than others . Then listening to number 2 again I noticed it was much more levelled, less dynamic. So I would put my money on number 1 as the real piano.

These are some of the reasons that made me second guess my first assumptions. The brightness of the first piano made me assume it was the MIDI recording…But, then I listened closely to both of the recordings from start to finish wearing headphones. There were many clues that convinced me to change my mind on my original assumption, as I wrote about a few posts above.

I’d say the MIDI is pretty damn convincing though!

[madpsychot]

I think another context is whether the real or digital piano is being used as a solo instrument or as part of an ensemble. If you wanted to record an album of Chopin’s greatest hits, you’d be hard pressed to find a reputable concert pianist reaching for his / her copy of Addictive Keys and dusting off a MIDI keyboard. But when you need a piano in the background of a song with other instruments, I think it would be a lot harder to discern what kind of piano was being used in the song.

[bozmillar]

I think another context is whether the real or digital piano is being used as a solo instrument or as part of an ensemble.

Yep, I can think of many times where the focused sound of the samples is more desirable than the real thing, and many more times where it wouldn’t really be better one way or the other.

[Stan_Halen]

I posted the answer in the top post.

Something I really seemed to notice in the 1st clip was these ‘thumps’ and bumps … I’m guessing it was the pedals or the hammers? I didn’t really guess before I looked at the answer, just listened afterward and tried to notice the differences. The 2nd one does sound ‘cleaner’ and more focused, while the 1st has an ‘organic’ quality. But the noises seemed to really suggest an acoustic recording, they were like little explosions or a kick drum in the background (or sounding far off in the distance). Did anyone else pick up on that?

[bozmillar]

Something I really seemed to notice in the 1st clip was these ‘thumps’ and bumps … I’m guessing it was the pedals or the hammers?

Yep, it’s the pedals. Most sample libraries have the option of turning on pedal noise, but pedals aren’t really velocity sensitive controls, so it tends to be too much when turned up.

[Wicked]

Did anyone else pick up on that?

I think the first recording is the real piano because…

1. I can hear the body of the piano (the little knocking sounds of the keys moving inside the piano and also maybe some foot pedal movement)

Yes, that was one of the reasons I assumed the first recording was the real piano. The second recording had a bit of those clunking sounds too, but there was much less of them.

[AJ113]

The real piano sounds like I’m pounding as hard as I can.

I wouldn’t describe it like that. I would say you can hear the emotion in the performance.

In addition, the MIDI piano sounds like you’re holding back.