I’m never very comfortable with my own voice so my first reaction was that the vocal seemed loud and very much ‘in your face’… but that might just be me.
I like how you got the bass to be more distinct. I was having trouble getting that kind of sound, for sure. Mine’s kinda muddy, i think. I also like the way the harmony vocal and the little lead break sits in with everything else. The backing vocal seems ‘positioned’ a little different… and the solo is spread out somewhat (mine was kinda up the middle I suppose.) Has a cool placement to it that I like.
I only got to listen on my headphones so far. I look forward to checking it out on my monitors! Also would love to know what you used on the parts, if you can summarize a bit? Also, thanks for the MTPDK2 to AD2 mapping file. That will come in handy!
Ah, you’re too hard on yourself! I really like your voice on this, Jamie. Compare to Lightfoot’s Fitzgerald:
I also really like in Fitzgerald the subtle textures he adds in the background with electrics. I could hear something similar on Omerta.
So, I did a bunch of things. First I gain-staged all tracks so levels were constant at around -18. One of the biggest things I’ve learned from this forum is how important it is to automate volume on the tracks. I did that with all tracks, but esp vocals and guitars.
Glad you like the bass. I did a lot there: I tried to clean up the “honkiness” as @DeRebel suggested by cutting the low-mids. I kept your bass track and added a LP filter to cut out everything above 230; then I created a pre-fx send to a bass “grit” track where I EQ’d a small boost at 1.4 K, but cut out everything below 200 Hz or above about 5 K, and added a bass amp and did some ridiculous boosting there (Waves GTR/OverBass). But the real magic was on the bass aux (both went to the aux) where I added EQ and double compression (CLA 76 and CLA 2A), and then a multiband (C4) to boost everything below250). I don’t remember where I found that setup, but I really like it. Then lead with your bass track and push up the grit to taste. I think the HPF on the bass, together with the 1.4 K gave it a clearer, deeper tone (per @ColdRoomStudio’s comments), and a little more crispness and punch. Tried to, anyway.
On the main vocals I did some sculpting EQ (ReaEQ), added compression for color (Klanghelm MJUC, Jr) and then into the Omni. I also sent to a slapback delay and added a vocal impulse reverb, very soft, with significant LP and HP filters.
The BGVs were panned hard L and R; I added compression and some stereo delays, but also sent to a chorus bus and just a touch of reverb.
The acoustics were panned hard L and R, with some complementary surgical EQ, but then both went into their own Omni, then thru a guitar buss with a touch of compression.
I really like your drums. Sounds like a pretty cool freebie. I might load it and try it, but I didn’t hear. I just created a drum map to run it thru AD2, then split each of the channels and treated them with their own EQs and compression, to taste.
Oh, and I hope it’s okay, but I also used ReaTune for some pitch correction on vox, esp the harmonies, per @ColdRoomStudio’s thoughts on the vox.
By then I didn’t need to do much on the mix buss: just some light compression from the get-go (ReaComp) and some EQ (slick EQ). I “think” I also added Waves Vitamin for a little enhancement on the mix bus. However, I’m thinking I might like it better without.
Let me know what you think of this remix:
The main differences here are that I lost Vitamin and did a number of things to bring up the low end a little more. Honestly, in my first mix I didn’t have time to reference. Then I referenced it to Fitzgerald and thought it needed more low end, and a little less brilliance. I also softened the grit on the bass just a tad, and brought the guitars up a bit. And I changed the EQ on the drum and tried to get a different sound on the snare. Also added a multiband compressor (ReaXComp) to bring up everything between 90 Hz and 11K.
That’s it. That’s all I got.
I know it’s not perfect, but I enjoyed doing this. Would eagerly appreciate critique from you and others on what I did.
Very cool! Thanks for the insight into your process. I’m going to have to really play around with the bass to see if I can replicate some of the ‘pluckiness’ you were able to pull out. I played it with a felt pick but then I missed some of the attack later. I really appreciate you taking the time. I need to get in the habit of taking notes of what I do when working on stuff
I plan on spending some time with it this weekend… and I’m still looking forward to hearing it on my monitors instead of my cheap 'phones.
Not bad for my first ‘collaboration’ with another musician! Thank you!
Yeah, I looked them up and heard that first arrangement. TBH, I prefer your vocals on this song. It just works. Maybe cuz your version was the first I heard.
Any other feedback on the mix? Which bass do you prefer: on the last one I scaled back the grit a tad. I think I prefer that, though maybe it could be louder?
Overall I like your 2nd mix better than the first. It seems a little more cohesive. The bass sits in there pretty well and sounds distinct. Maybe the guitars could come up a tad more. I think it sounds pretty good.
Hey skua, I’m a little late to the party here, and I’m not familiar at all with the original, nor have I read the comments yet. So here goes…
The first thing that stands out is that this has a lot of potential! I really like the vibe you’ve got going here, and your vocals (is it you?) sounds pretty darn good and right on for this song. I like the FX - it’s got a nice 70’s kind of thing going on.
I think the thing that sticks out to me is the acoustic. It sounds like it’s a direct in? IMHO, I think everything would fall into place better if the acoustic were mic’d. (How the hell do you spell that?? “miked”?) I guess I’m hearng it with some America sounding acoustics, i.e. Horse With No Name or Ventura Highway. Then I think the other pieces would follow. Nice job man!
I see Tesgin got the tracks and did his own mix. So here’s a bashing on it. (Good comp with the Gordon Lightfoot song! What a classic!) FWIW, here you go…
I’m really liking the clarity and the vocal treatment on this one - a LOT. But… they seem too forward and need to be set back into the mix more. And if you’re going for Gordon, you can give him a bit more verb too, that might help.
I like how you shaved off the bite and sharpness on the acoustics, but they could be turned up so they carry things more. As I’m listening, I’m think the whole mix could maybe be balance a little better by simply bringing up the acoustics so they are more featured? …Which would effectively lower the vocals too - if that that makes sense. (?) Right now the vocals and bass seem to be dominating too much - IMHO…
And honestly, I think you could “soften” the bass a little so it’s not as featured and doesn’t poke out quite as much.
It feels like the mix can use some “gluing” too - like a nice gooey vintage buss compressor.
These are all little things really, I think you’ve got good tones and FX chains going, but it could use more cohesion to pull the pieces together and solidify things a bit more.
Nice job on this and good performances skua! Cool song.
— edit —
Aw nuts! I think I was listening to your first mix… Now for the remix. (Maybe I should read the threads before commenting? )
OK, here we go…
Oh wow! Much better levels! Yeah, I’m liking this! I still think the vocals could come down a little though. Harmonies sound great! Bass is right there… Nice. Good mix! So all I’ve got for you now is the vocals could come down a little? Really nice job Tesgin!
Hey jameson @skua, I like what you did in mix 3 - nice improvement!
One thing I would suggest with the vocals is to put some pre-delay on the reverb to bring the vocals forward in the mix. Because the guitars have quite prominent transients, they tend to jump forward in the soundstage, so to the vocals need to come further forward to sit in front of the guitars.
@Tesgin, I like a lot of things about your latest mix - good vocal clarity, and just general separation overall. Here are some things I think could improve:
You could use a TON more reverb on the vocal - listen to to the Gordon Lighfoot track you posted. There is a massive amount of luscious reverb filling up the space behind the vocal in the song. The reason the vocal still sounds crystal clear and right up front is because it also has a healthy serving of pre-delay on the vocal verb. 80-150ms is the sweet spot to get vocals with upfrontness and depth. Because @skua’s cover is so sparse instrumentally, reverb can really help to glue the mix together.
Along those lines, the guitars are very low in the mix compared to the drums and vocals. The guitars are the harmonic as well as rhythmic bed on which the song sits. As they are too low in the mix at present, the mix lacks forward movement (rhythm) and harmonic structure. The bass is left to hold everything together, and the drums aren’t active enough to provide that sense of motion.
If you can’t get the guitars loud enough without drowning out the vocal, then the solution is to compress the guitars more firmly, and eq them in such a ways as to make sure their hamonic information is heard, but it doesn’t conflict with the vocal.
Conversely, if the vocals have to be very loud in the balance so as to dwarf the guitars somewhat in the balance, then that probably points to their needing firmer dynamic control via compression and/or automation.
The drums need more space around them too. Again there is room in the mix for the drums to extend their sustain further. Reverb and room mics are your friend in that case.
Overall, I like what you have done - it is definitely on the right track.
@miked Thanks a lot for the input. Yeah, that’s me ‘singing’ The ‘acoustic’ guitars are just a standard Strat processed to sound kinda acoustic-y (BiasFX) and going direct-in.
@ColdRoomStudio Thanks for the suggestions on @Tesgin 's mix and the reasoning behind them. It generally matched what I thought… vocals seemed high and guitars seemed low… but you provided some real insight as to how to address the issues.
Re: Edmund Fitzgerald … love the song (I think I still have the 45 I bought as a kid in '76) but would not have thought of it as a comparison. I am, however, a sucker for a good story-song and that is one of the best, IMHO.
OK, one last mix just to see if I’m on track or just imagining incremental improvement
I added some pre-delay on reverb for the vocals (about 120ms) and I boosted the volume just a bit on the main and harmony vocals. I also dialed in some light pitch correction there as well. I pulled the L and R guitars in towards the center a tiny bit too. The volume of the guitars is the same but it seems to have helped the vocal move forward a bit more? I boosted the volume on the solo just a tad as well.
@Tesgin I was going to switch over to AD2 for the drums, but I couldn’t figure out how to load up the drum map file you provided to map MT2 Power Drum Kit MIDI to AD2!
Hey Jamieson, I happened by right after you posted this…
Listening as I write:
You need a second or two of silence before the song starts. Vocals - check! I’d like to hear less attack on the “acoustics” to maybe soften them some more. There is also that “direct-in” sound/frequency I find hard to ignore. I wish I could tell you better what it is. But I’d take a parametric EQ and hunt around for that “bouncy/ringing” frequency and turn it down a little. @Tesgin did a pretty good job of it. Also, I’d like to hear the bass a dB or 2 louder, or perhaps just a little more saturation would bring it up and fill things out? I can hear it rumbling down there, but it almost feels like a sub. Finally, I’m hearing a little boxiness - could be “fixed” easily with a little scoop out of that range on your mixbus.
Don’t let the nit-picks get you down, this is a pretty good mix!
PS. Your voice cracking right at the end is perfect!
Wow, @ColdRoomStudio, this is excellent critique. Really helpful for me: There’s nothing you said that is unfamiliar to me, per se, but the way you applied it to my mix is very helpful. Makes perfect sense to me. But I especially appreciate your explanations of why each of those touches are important: helps me understand it in a more meaningful way. This is great.
Okay, so I know exactly what I need to do! Won’t have a chance to get to it tonight or possibly for a couple of days, but I’ll get it done!
Not sure if you’re on Windows or Mac, but on Mac I do the following:
Go to username >Library>Application Support>Addictive Drums 2>41182
Copy the file (MT Pro Drum Kit 2.AD2Map) into that folder
Then when you open AD2, you need to select that map preset:
Open AD2
Click on ? on top right
From the pop-up, click Map Window
On the top left, click the drop-down under Map Preset
Select My Maps>MT Pro Drum Kit 2.AD2Map
If you’re on windows, you’ll just need to find that folder that contains user presets (AD2Map files).
I’m running Windows. Thanks for the tips… I should be able to find it now. Long holiday weekend coming… hopefully have lots of time to play. (although I’m a little bummed… I have a cheap Washburn that I like quite a lot and the nut broke last weekend! Gotta figure out how to repair that now.)
)
The ‘acoustic’ guitars are just a standard Strat processed to sound kinda acoustic-y (BiasFX) and going direct-in.