Believe it or not, I haven’t needed a U87 up to this point. I was personally never blown away by this mic. I can borrow a 416 pretty easy. And if I needed my own, they’re not as expensive to buy.
Because you only ever hand dialogue editors raw audio. Even if you were allowed to EQ it, It’d be pretty hard to dress up a 58 to sound like a U87. Now a C414 or a cheap $1000 Peluso clone? I think they would be pretty hard pressed to tell them apart from a U87, especially if they weren’t in the room when it was recorded.
Thats true. In the music world, the techs and engineers have some say in the equipment. As @Stan_Halen said, its more like a live sound gig, where the backline company shows up with the gear the artists management requires them to on the rider. Its a little bit of a different world.
I offered to explore that option with them. Source Connect seems to be the standard these days. Some of it has to do with budget and schedule. Also, some directors are also more hands on than others.
I get what you’re saying there but I disagree, an sm58 is chosen because its known to be bomb proof, reliable and sound good with all manor of singers. It has prooves itself through many a live test and always delivers. Plus it only costs about £90
This is a question of people not knowing about mics and how they work and requesting one because its the most expensive they know (although still cheap to lots of high end mics) and therefore they belive it to be 'the best’
Maybe work was done before on one and they likes the sound, not knowing the sound came from the preamp or the post processing.
An sm58 is good for throwing about and still working.
This mic requested will be in a studio, there is no comparison
This is one of those situations where you don’t really have the option to care about ideologies. Either you want this job, or you don’t care about this job, and owning that microphone is part of getting the job, because they are the ones creating the job description.
You can take into account the cost of the mic when you are negotiating your price, and you can figure out from there whether it’s a job worth taking for $X.
I’d personally view it as though the mic has no value after this project is over. You can’t view it as “I get this job, and I also have this microphone at the end of it” because you yourself said you never had the need for this microphone before, so it doesn’t really provide any value for you beyond this one job. Any job down the road that it can be used for is purely a bonus, and not something to consider.
That’s kind of how I feel, and ironically, I want to think my feelings matter because I’m the one who has to buy it. Though in the grand scheme to things, no…they don’t matter. I think the Peluso is dang close to a U87ai, and its $1200 cheaper. Considering that you are expected to hand in the edited audio dry and unprocessed, I wouldn’t attempt to use an sm58. But I’ve also seen an AKG 414 do real well on spoken word voiceover.
Yup. This one is basically a take-it-or-leave-it. But I do think I have some leverage because of the financial and logistical inconvenience of having to dub in another region.
I’m on the fence here, but leaning toward agreeing. Any job it CAN be used for is a bonus, but is any job it MUST be used for still a bonus? Or does it become a necessity at that point?
Just a couple of questions for you. 1- Would you know if there are other ‘‘Studios’’ competing for this contract. If not, ask. Some companies and government agencies have a ‘‘Best Practice’’ policy to follow - they must go by the book, no deviation is permitted. So they will specify what is required in the contract proposal. Usually a minimum of three companies are sent invitations to bid on the contract.
In some cases and has been my experience, they already have a desired target contractor in mind, but they are obligated to show transparency in the process.
2- did this contract come out of the blue, or is there a known networking contact involved, which will tell you which way this deal is trending to.
How many jobs do you expect that to be the case? How many years have you been doing this and this is the first time this mic has been needed. Extrapolate that into the future and you have your answer.
Unless you feel like owning the mic will be able to get you more jobs. Maybe that is the case. But if that was the case, wouldn’t you have bought it already?
We don’t really know, so we’re just speculating. But my point was that people like to use what they know, “a known quantity” so to say. Anything else will inject uncertainty into their world, or make them think harder than they want to. They might end up having to explain this to someone else (a decision maker) above their head, so they may not want to go there at all.
At this point the cost becomes a justification for you, which isn’t a bad place to be, but just wherever you want to line up on it. As Kinfolk pointed out, if there is any competition in this scenario and you put the cost of the mic in your quote for the job, you may cost more than the competition. Someone who already has the mic may therefore have an advantage.
If instead, you are looking for more work beyond this job with the same company/people or hope to get referrals from them to others who are potential clients, owning the mic would be an investment. So I guess it depends if you’re looking at this as a one-off job, or if it’s in your future wheelhouse.
You could split the difference and build part of the mic cost into your quote (i.e. depreciation), with the assumption that you could sell the used mic for $X later on, recouping your investment.
Jonathon, you can always buy a cheap Chinese U87 knock-off and set it up perched above your mic of choice (AKG 414, or something similar). When people see your fake U87 they’ll love the sounds you’re actually getting with your AKG 414 that’s in very close proximity to it. I bet most people wouldn’t know the difference between the U87 and a sub $200 mic.
Just buy the U87 and be done forever and youll always have a reference to probably the most standard mic in the business. (Maybe sell that pile of 1176 Hairballs that didnt get built would pay for a used one…aha.)
The old U87 or the U87ai has a noticeable sensitivity difference.
For a home recording thing or for a “Brandon-skeptical test” might not show the U87 does nothing a $160 chineese copy design thief mic might not do… but J your in the business!!
I dont get it?
You have bought the building, the board, the high end converters, the Dr Z amps, the expensive monitors…spending on hiend…why in the f? would you put a Hello Kitty mic in the mix? Its crazy hahaa…dang man… just finish it up with the U87’s and hiEnd!!!
some things are good to own and hold value well…SM7, RE20, U87, SM58, SM57 …good investment probably better than the converters and monitors as far as resale worth.
Hi I have an AKG C 414B XL2 I could send you to get thru your session. I only use it once in awhile for acoustic. I didn’t like it for vocals for some reason. I have used it maybe two hours so far. I do know it is very sensitive. I can rub my thumb and index finger together and see the meter go up. ha ha If I didn’t have it for a month, I could live with that. Yes, I trust everyone.
I wonder about used mics more than about anything. Buying a U87 brand new or used is a big risk.
That dude on GS sent a expensive mic out for a mod and they stuck in some chineese capsule supposedly and sent it back to him.
Then he sent it to a known pro who said this isnt even a Neumann capsule…whoa
being fragile condensers too…hard damn decision to buy New or Used w risk.
in Jonathans scenario probably used would be ok because its all about the brand name on the mic housing and processing can make it sound good.
(or even double mic them to have a backup BLUE track too)
Save $1500 on a used U87.
maybe get a used one with a return policy.
geeez I thought buying a fake- SM57 was bad, just thinking about buying a U87 and getting burned is wild.
I’ve been thinking about this pretty heavy since you mentioned it yesterday. I put in a call to the director of the state film commission, and asked him about his experience with tech riders. He assured me this was not coming from the voice talent. He said the voice talent gets an idea of what they prefer, communicates that to the sound supervisor, and then they are supposed to communicate with the studio. But if they show up and engineer thinks a Manley or Bock are a better fit, the voice artists needs to at least attempt to work the engineer. So he said it was standard practice to start with an U87, then change if needed. I’m in the process of becoming the only state endorsed post production facility through the film commission (which is an extension of the South Carolina department of tourism). I think it would be a good idea to try and work with what the director (who is a highly experienced industry vet) thinks would best accommodate clients. The South Carolina government recorded $180m in direct spending on film production last year to local businesses within the state. $18m was grant incentivized.
As to your question of how many times I’ve done this…its sort of new territory for me. Remember that I’ve built a lot of my company on broadcast post, classical, and church music. Not film post. Studio broadcasters almost always use Re-20’s and Schopes stuff. For live broadcast, usually wireless lapel and podium mics. And I only started learning how to code games a few months ago.
He did understand that buying even two of these things, is not something anyone takes lightly. But he did suspect that it had to do with quality control. A lot of real small operations would push cheaper mics. Some of them great mics, some of them not good for VO. He wondered if having a U87 on board was sort of a like having a pro tools certification, where it shows you meet a minimum standard for something, but at the end of the day doesn’t mean a damn thing. He said they were probably balked at Blue Bottle mics because they’re not very common. I asked him about the TLM 103 and Peluso P87. He said I’ll want a pair of U87 if there’s any way I could afford it. WTF??? A PAIR??? He said yes…its common for two VO artists who are interacting in a scene to be in the same room together. Don’t hand one artist a U87, and another artist a TLM 103. The problem is that the second mic will not get used very often. As a second artist is more often tracked over a remote studio feed from another state.
[quote=“CCbro, post:21, topic:1731”]
Just buy the U87 and be done forever and youll always have a reference to probably the most standard mic in the business. [/quote]
Hey buddy! lol…thanks for dropping in, and good to see ya online again
…I was considering that.
I don’t know about a $160 Chineese copy. But I’m thoroughly convinced it’s not better than a AKG C414, and many other mics in the $1k range. I’m not sure how much better is than a TLM 103 either.
Ha! Go big and go home. Right? Part of it is that I got a killer deal on that board. I think the converters were worth every penny. I have how overpriced those U87’s are for what they do
I don’t know if I should take any chances with a vintage 87. The 87ai is the only available production model as far as I know.
I got the monitors used but I’m hesitant to buy a used mic. The first Blue Bottle was in fabulous condition. The second Blue Bottle had to be sent back to be re-conditioned. You’d think high end mics would normally be well cared for, but I’ve heard some pretty scary stories about that stuff!
@feaker Paul, Wow…thanks so much for offering! Amazingly generous of you. I have a pair of 414’s. The problem isn’t having a good VO mic, its weighing out the business expenditure of $6400 on a pair of mics that film guys want you to have for no good reason.
I was totally comfortable with $6000 on the converters because I use them every day. Same with the Focal monitors. I’m highly dependent on both. Ugh…its just not the same with these mics. They’re going to do some time just sitting in the locker while my film and gaming portfolio gets built. Jeez. (sorry man…just thinking out loud).
But thank you, thank you, thank you, for offering to lend me that 414!!
As the kids would say “no problem” ha ha I was told at one point the my LA 610 and that 414 was the pair to have, so I bought them. Salesmen are hard on me sometimes. Good luck.
I bet most people wouldn’t know the difference between the U87 and a sub $200 mic.