Had another listen to the mix on my studio speakers. Still sounds killer… One thing that is missing is long-term dynamics. Eg: at 1:39 I wanted the mix to get bigger, but it just stayed the same.
Try this: Set the volume/density you want for the “biggest” part of your mix, then work backwards, automating the volume feeding into your final compression/limiting chain, so that the mix jumps just a tad in volume each time you want it to get bigger.
In terms of eq: The mix needs a little more sub below 50hz, cut a little around 80hz, cut some around 180hz & 400hz; do a broad boost centred at 1200hz and try a hefty shelf boost around 10k. That should improve clarity without losing oomph.
I listened a few more times to that intro. I think it might be the kick drum that’s bothering me. It’s like it has 2 attacks. My theory is that the compression is bringing down the attack at first, heavily, such that when the tail comes in and the compressor lets go, it sounds like another attack. It’s not something I noticed with the rest of the mix in play. And it could only be bothering me because it feels like heavy processing, and an average music listener would have no idea.
That first reference track you posted is so dense. I couldn’t listen to that for very long. So… maybe take my opinion with a dash of salt lol.
Hey Dan,
I’m really enjoying this song! It has a big grunge vibe, and like some of the best of that era this is excellent song writing. I love the way melody of the main vocal hits some unexpected notes that somehow fit in (don’t ask me about the music theory - probably something mixolydian or whatever - but I like it!). A hint of Beatles in there, indeed.
I’m listening on my laptop speakers so can’t seriously comment on the technical side. The pumping compression obviously has its place in this music but maybe just a bit too much. For instance: I noticed in the intro at around 0:43 that I was trying to work out if I was listening to a purposeful guitar/ drums riff or a compression effect. I assume the first, in which case it might come across better if it didn’t almost coincide with the pumping effect of the compressor.
Like every one else: I love the way the synth comes peeping out from under the guitar riff all the time, even on laptop speakers there’s a real feel of 3 D in there. I also like the way you put a lot of movement in your guitars, I guess with panning the delays?
Is the orchestration some sort of Meletron? It’s hard to judge the stereo field on laptop speakers, but I’m thinking it might be interesting to try and further widen the orchestration in relation to the (already wide) guitars - maybe only in parts.
Would love to hear the other 4 songs
Had another listen to the mix on my studio speakers. Still sounds killer… One thing that is missing is long-term dynamics. Eg: at 1:39 I wanted the mix to get bigger, but it just stayed the same.
Thanks mate! I normally do a little automation on width and volume between sections but I don’t think I have in this mix. I’ll have a look and adjust like you suggested.
I’ll experiment with your suggestions (and some of the others) and repost soon.
Thanks again.
Also, Stan suggested using the song for a future mixing comp or just a mixing challenge. Thought I’d check with you first. Let me know what I need to do if you want to run something more official.
That first reference track you posted is so dense. I couldn’t listen to that for very long. So… maybe take my opinion with a dash of salt lol.
All good. I’ll take your opinion on board regardless. Yeah, it’s an interesting mix. They just released another album a month or so ago and it has almost the identical sound so I guess that’s the thing they are after.
The kick double attack thing may well be that crushed double track so I’ll pull that back and see if that helps.
Thanks again.
I love the way melody of the main vocal hits some unexpected notes that somehow fit in (don’t ask me about the music theory - probably something mixolydian or whatever - but I like it!).
Thanks Aef.
I’m not great with musical theory either so anything you said in that regard would be lost on me anyway!
Like every one else: I love the way the synth comes peeping out from under the guitar riff all the time,
Yeah, that is done using Boz’s Big Beuatiful Door plug, which pulls the volume of it down and up when instruments are playing (I can’t recall if I trigger it from the guitars or vocals or both). It can be done without the plug but it is an amazing one stop shop that has little need for complex routing and effects chains.
Is the orchestration some sort of Meletron? It’s hard to judge the stereo field on laptop speakers, but I’m thinking it might be interesting to try and further widen the orchestration in relation to the (already wide) guitars - maybe only in parts.
The orchestral sections are UVI orchestral suit. The panning is a little bit of an issue as it defaults to orchestral panning like a real sound stage. I have not dived into it enough to know how much specific panning you can do but it is not as easy as it should be I believe.
Would love to hear the other 4 songs
Thanks!! They all have similar qualities but are also quite different. If I’m honest, I’d say that Like an Omen is the best one of the lot. But I’m still happy with the others too. Thanks for the nice comments.
I’m not sure… @holster is the Grand Poobah here, so if you’d like to set something official up, he’s the dude.
On the other hand, if you want to do something less formal, I’d suggest uploading a .zip file with the raw tracks to Dropbox or similar and just start a link and post the link for everyone to download.
Another alternative to reach more potential mixers is to offer the multitrack to Mike Senior to use for his ‘Mixing Secrets’ Free Multitrack Download Library http://www.cambridge-mt.com/ms-mtk.htm
… that’s what I did with my multitrack.
People have said a lot of things about this track, and I logged in for the first time in a long time just to say this: I drooled pretty much the whole time while I listened. Yeah, it’s crushed, but it didn’t sound any more crushed than stuff from The Sword. I know it’s supposed to be “bash” this recording, but I just can’t do it. Too much to like, for me
I absolutely loved it, and can’t wait to hear the rest of the songs.
People have said a lot of things about this track, and I logged in for the first time in a long time just to say this: I drooled pretty much the whole time while I listened. Yeah, it’s crushed, but it didn’t sound any more crushed than stuff from The Sword. I know it’s supposed to be “bash” this recording, but I just can’t do it. Too much to like, for me
I absolutely loved it, and can’t wait to hear the rest of the songs.
Thanks for logging in to tell me that as that is possibly the best thing ever said about music I’ve done!
When I started this project, I was concerned that it would actually ostracise due to the unusual combination of vocoder, nicer vocals and heavy riffs. On the other hand, I figured it could work as these are my loves and I know I can do them well enough to get by and achieve roughly what i hear in my head. I was lucky enough to see The Sword maybe ten years ago (Maybe not quite that long) at a festival. I loved them and have their first two albums.
As I aid in another post, I think this song is probably the strongest, but I’m hoping the other four can relate as much to make the set enjoyable. They are all quite different to each other with enough in common though… I’ll post a link to it when it’s finished… hopefully in two -three months.
Wow. I usually can’t listen to this heavy stuff all the way through, but you got me. Really nice arrangement and catchy. Like others have said, I like that BG synth. It really keep things moving and kind of ties it all together.
As for crits, the massive compressed pumping at the end started grating on me, but perhaps that’s the genre. Also, those HUGE ballsy guitars felts like they were fighting it out in the low end with the bass and other stuff, which as a result, made things feel bottom heavy and muddy.
So again, take that for what it’s worth, I’m out of my element, but its a cool enough song that you had me the whole way through. Nicely done!
Interesting that this came up. When I was listening to Stoner Rock stuff (on eMusic), The Sword was probably my favorite. I bought probably the whole album Age of Winters, and 4 songs from Gods of the Earth. I’ll have to listen to them again. When I heard your track Dan it definitely brought back those memories.
As for crits, the massive compressed pumping at the end started grating on me, but perhaps that’s the genre. Also, those HUGE ballsy guitars felts like they were fighting it out in the low end with the bass and other stuff, which as a result, made things feel bottom heavy and muddy.
Thanks Miked,
Yeah, the pumping has come from the online mastering software I am using (eMastered). Generally I do two or three masters with different settings applied. I haven’t done that as yet as I wanted to hear what people thought about that pumping feel given it is often common in the genre. It didn’t sit completely right with me either, but having said that, it could be something I could get used to if the response was more positive.
I will lower the compression levels and fiddle with the EQ a little too and hopefully that clears up those issues.
Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment!
Hey Dan, I think that first mix of the 2 new ones is a keeper! It works for me on every level. The 2nd one is just way too polite for this kind of music.
I just LOVE the way this song starts! Great drums!
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Listening again - YES, the first of your new mixes for sure. It really opened things up a gave it some really nice clarity. I’m hearing things I didn’t the first time around. Cool song man!
The new mixes are much better. I like the ''watered down" mix the best. If it were my mix, I would bring up the backing vocals a bit more. Then brighten up the snare and raise the level a hint, and also bring up the toms as well. To me the kick is a little tubby but that’s just personal preference.
I think that first mix of the 2 new ones is a keeper! It works for me on every level. The 2nd one is just way too polite for this kind of music.
Thanks mate!
I have noticed a few things (small things) that I will adjust, mainly some sounds in the vocals that need a touch of automation - the stuff that would probably annoy me and no-one else. Outside of that, I think I’m close to done with it and have the basic settings now (eq wise on the master bus and eMastered) as many of the sounds are the same across the four other songs.
I just LOVE the way this song starts! Great drums!
Thanks again. Yeah, I’m still not 100% convinced about that much “space” at the very start as was mentioned by Cristina. I want that intro to be BIG as in big space and big powerful. Perhaps bringing down the crushed guitar track may make it a touch more punchy without losing the bigness of the space? Dunno.
The 1st new mix sounds less crushed than the original mix, and has a bit more clarity.
The 2nd new mix sounds a good bit clearer to me (clarity & separation), but is also less loud. I had to compensate loudness to compare them, but for overall sound quality the 2nd new mix gets my vote. I can hear detail in that one I can’t hear in the others. And depending on what the loudness (LUFS) measure is Andrew may be right that this one won’t get attenuated by streaming, or not as much.
