Not at all, I’m usually much more self conscious about my own vocal performances than my guitar playing, and I’m pretty sure I’m a better singer than guitar player, but for some reason vocals make me feel “exposed” in a way that bad guitar playing just doesn’t.
And you know, it’s a good idea, from working with other people I’ve learned to focus much more on the performance than on vocal tone. When you hear a great singer complain that a great take just doesn’t sound right it really helps to put your own impulse to be self critical in perspective.
I feel much more of a guitar player and musician in general than a singer.
But instrumentals are the hardest thing to do well, and no one really cares for them, so I sing because one has to…
I’ve been smoking cigarettes since i was 15 and yes it has uglified my voice. But i would not say that i hate my voice, i mean take D. Trump. He speaks like he needs a massive cut at 1khz, and he still loves hearing himself speak. Long story short, i usually i find the appropriate performance for the song in 3-4 takes. Another thing to keep in mind, is you are listening to the song for hours, so take a break then come back to it after a few days.
As far as EQ goes, i’ve found out that if i have a parametric EQ with infinite choices, i tend to mess around more with it. Just stick to an EQ with pre-selected frequencies.
Yeah, I’m an ugly smoker too. Look what it did to Joni Mitchell… although she has a raspiness in her voice that is quite appealing, but she definitely ruined her soprano.
Oh well, time to quit?
Yes please, Patrick, please quit!! We want you around for a good, long time! Seriously. Quit those nasty things.
On topic: I used to be massively self-conscious about singing. I would just not do it, and stuck entirely to instrumental performances-- not hard when I started out as a classical guitarist. And with my all-time #1 guitar idol being Leo Kottke, I had a lot of stuff to emulate that didn’t need to be sung. (And as you surely recall, I vehemently disagree with your stance that nobody wants to listen to instrumentals!)
But then sometime in the early 90s, when I was in my early 30s, I just got over it and started singing, quality be damned. Don’t know why, but I just said to myself, people don’t hate it when I sing, so I’ll just go with it. Of course, in those days all I ever did was covers, and mixed in some familiar ones to go along with the largely obscure artists I tend to favor.
So now I don’t mind the sound of my own voice at all. I recognize its many shortcomings but have gained the confidence to just not really care that much, and I guess that confidence, as many have said, has helped my performances. Works for me!
Seriously though, your latest stuff sounds great, so you’re obviously getting there.
IMO, if you can have some emotional distance from the sources you are working on, you can be more objective in you decisions - that’s why I recommend mixing other people’s stuff - you get used to maintaining that emotional distance.
I can understand you not wanting to ‘waste’ time on it, but frankly, this gets down to the same principle of critiquing other people’s mixes. For your own purposes, it at first appears a waste of your precious time, but I know you know it isn’t - it’s ear training - The same principle applies.
Here’s one other thing I suggest to get some emotional distance from your own production - break it into 2 distinct stages - production and mixing. Do all your writing, programming, recording, arranging and editing in the production stage, not worrying too much about a pristine mix. Then when production has finished, bounce down all the tracks to .wav files, leave them for a while and work on something else. Then, come back to them fresh & start the mix from scratch, imagining you have been contracted by a client to mix the tracks.
In other words, it’s because when you mix your critical thinking mode is on. Sometimes that anti-virus finds false positives…Also, if i do a take then mix then do the second verse then mix, i feel like a nerd singing. It is definitely better to be done with recording then mix it, ideally with fresh ears.
Thanks Dave, nice of you to worry about my health! Unfortunately some habits are hard to cut.
I think you have a great voice for your style of music, BTW. I don’t know what style of music I do, but I guess I’m never happy with the voice that goes with it
Well, that’s not really helpful. I tried a few mics and the difference was not that big honestly…
Maybe when I get a U87 I will be entitled to record?
BTW I have no qualms adding any necessary EQ or compression on a track if it needs it, but it’s not even the case here…
I think I do! - but you know my issues with this though.
Bashing takes a listen or two, I find that it’s a great way to define my own taste.
To me a mix takes hours and weeks. I don’t think I’m ready to put that amount of time on something that doesn’t excites me. Doing music excites me… until it doesn’t. This generally happens when I have to dial my own vocal…
And I might try doing what you suggest: working in 2 distinct stages, but it’s totally counter-intuitive to me since I work out my arrangements as I mix, and I mix as I arrange, and produce and record… and it’s all one process to me. I can decide when the mix is well on its way that I want to change the snare because the one I have doesn’t work. Same for any tracks really. It’s probably awkward to you and other “mixers” around, but it’s the only way I find being efficient and getting to a result in the end. In a way, a mix for me is just like another instrument, and it’s important to me that I can play around it and twist it around depending on the inspiration… Not sure it makes sense, but that how it works for me.
I hear you about false positive. Fortunately there are some pair of ears here that can set me straight…
But yeah, as I said to @ColdRoomStudio it’s not that I sing a verse then mix then do another. But typically, I will record the vocals last, (I will work with a scratch vocal beforehand though), but then I might change things according to how it feels…
Right back atcha, my friend (and thank you). Your voice goes great with the sonic landscapes you create. It’s a distinctive sound. I know it is very easy for someone else to say, but you should just give yourself permission to sound how you sound. Trust me, there are many many people who would be absolutely delighted to be able to generate something of the quality that you do, voice work included. I fully understand the self-consciousness, believe me… anyway, we’re your support system, so go for it!
I have issues with my vocals all the time. The funny thing is that i love my band mates voice but he always thinks there are problems with his vocals while i think that there are problems with mine.
sooo
either get some one else to do the mixing for you or learn to trust someone and when they say your voice is sounding good in a mix you just believe it. Your voice should continue to improve as you get more experience and practice as well but i think that you may always struggle to believe it is good enough. i know i do.
There was an old one from SNL I think, where they were in the studio and they had Garrett Morris and they were shuffling 2 sets of engineers back and forth. one dumb and one smart lol. And the dumb ones were like “wait a minute, feedback is bad, right?” or something like that lol
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Bashing takes a listen or two…To me a mix takes hours and weeks.
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This is my whole point. Mixing vocals for doesn’t have to take hours and weeks. When you have no particular attachment to them, it’s just like bashing a song - if you have a modicum of experience, it takes a listen or 2, maybe 3. You can tell instantly what it needs to make it better… an eq cut here, high pass there, boost here, some compression - done! The more you practice doing it, the quicker and more decisive you become.
Totally understandable - I get it… but think of it this way - does wading through a .pdf manual for you DAW or latest plugin excite you? I know I’d rather put needles in my eyes… but you’ve done it - I know you have - why? Because you need to do it to get the results you crave.
…maybe it’s the thought of mixing a whole song that puts you off… I tell you what - I’ll send you a pre-mixed “karaoke” 2-track of my original version of the current mix competition track, so you only have to mix in the vocals - give yourself an hour, two hours tops and see what you come up with. I can guarantee it will give you a better perspective on mixing your own stuff - what do you think?
- but you know my issues with this though.