My vision for this site

My vision for this site
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#81

I’m also thinking about these things for a few months now. Thinking how you can achieve an online place where you can answer to most (if not all) of these wishes. you could divide it up into 3 category’s. Forum/library/collaboration. I’ve been doing some research about how sites work, and what options you have. A friend of mine has his own company, and is quite the computer wizz. No really, he’s a freak. And after talking with him about an idea I had for this crazy site that incorporates it all, it turned out, that if you really want to make something like this work properly. It means you basically need a whole team, and investors. If you want an income from adds, you need 10’s of 1000’s of people visiting your site daily. If you want a site where you can have a forum, a library and a workplace, where every one can have there own profile and do actual business for money, you are easily paying 10 to 15k for the site alone. Then you need a control centre to manage the site which costs an additional few k. But a site like that also needs constant management.

BUT, I think IF you do it like that, and you create a good platform where people can sell there services, then at least you got something that motivates people to stay interactive. If by form of topics, you can advert your project. Like for instance, you are in need of a female vocal on your trance song, you can create a topic stating that, and maybe offer money to the one that eventually end’s up on that record.

If put all this stuff and more into a private message to a few of this site “senior” members, but there hasn’t been much enthusiasm I guess.

I’m willing to be an owner in this kind of a project, but like I said, you need a team. Cause to be fair, time is money, and every one needs an income. I’d love to have something like this combined with own music making and such to be my income, but then again, you need a team.

Badges and all is cool and fun, but we are not any more. Money sounds more interesting. To bad though, but it is what it is. I want to make music all day, but then I cant pay off my house. Create a platform where musicians can find each other, and with the right promo I think you got yourself a golden idea.

Would be sad if people created a site like this without me, but I guess I cant stop that :stuck_out_tongue: But you wouldn’t know what you where missing out on :stuck_out_tongue:

I want to create and I want to provide, I’m sick of talking about it.


#82

I think there are a few essential things missing from this site that prevent it from growing beyond the small crowd that it is.

A) Opportunities to grow. I don’t know about anybody else, but I don’t come to this site expecting to learn new things. I come here because I enjoy the conversation. Recording seems to have taken a back seat, the same way it did with RR. That’s not good if you want more people. I’ve kind of noticed that this site has become a very short stepping stone for people who are looking to progress and grow. It’s like we’re really good at providing growth for people only on a single point in their growth journey. Once they get past that point, this site doesn’t offer anything to help those people. Once in a while people stick around because they enjoy the conversation. But most don’t.

B) There’s no clear demographic. If this site is supposed to cater to beginners, then it needs resources that beginners can take advantage of. If it’s going to cater to professionals, it needs resources that professionals can use. But it doesn’t quite have any of those. It just sort of hovers hoping something will happen. There’s no overarching goal.

C) This site doesn’t provide any hope for someone aspiring for more. I think this is a huge one. If I wanted advice on how to grow beyond recording myself in my bedroom, I would not look for advice on this forum. Even if it’s not intentional, there is definitely a “Why would you do anything beyond what I do” vibe here.

I do understand why that vibe exists. I think the harsh reality is important, but I think we send a message beyond harsh reality and into cynicism.

I think the biggest reason this is the case is because it’s where all of us settled when we learned to record, enjoyed doing it, but didn’t want to do it for a living. I’m in the same boat. I absolutely do not want to ever run a commercial recording studio. But I think we provide essentially no hopeful optimism in that field. So anyone who wants to go that route is not ever going to come here for advice. And that’s what a huge number of people who want to record want to do.


#83

I came on here years ago because I couldn’t figure out why my Lexicon interface didn’t show up in mac, stuck around and learned a lot, but grew into a market that no one on here even cares about. I think I’m the only post and broadcast guy here (I could be wrong though), and you’re the only one who’s making any plugins. But who cares? So what? Call it what it is and stick around for the conversation. Why not? …it never hurts to have a group of guys to bounce questions off of if you have them.

I started using RR as a repository to dump questions onto, sort of the way Ethan uses his audio expert forum, but I don’t want to go to the trouble of managing it like Ethan does. A couple guys on Produce Like A Pro asked some questions about music law and copyright the other day. Since I’d gone to all the work of writing the citations and referencing case law, I dug up the answers and copy pasted them over on Warrens site. Its faster to dig info off this thing than it is my own hard drive lol. Its almost like having a blog, but there’s no real pressure to upkeep it. I don’t think the measure of the value of the site is how big it grows. Doesn’t that only matter if you’re trying to get paid for being here? Well…you are…so maybe it does…Dunno there.

I think the attempt to define a demographic eventually started hurting RR. Warren Huart has a lot of noobs but he also has some ridiculously talented pros. I think his resources cater to both, but the common thread is they cater to people who are serious, as the forum is a little deep and its too expensive for some hobbyists. But its badly understaffed, outdated, and doesn’t work or function half as good as this one. Its actually in pretty abysmal shape for a place that costs $200/yr to even log into.

I wasn’t with RR as long as some, but I think it eventually outgrew its initial target demographic and didn’t adapt well. And I think it attracted a lot more aspiring professionals than Brandon anticipated, which had positive and negatives effects on his branding. When I got on there, I’d had some ridiculous career experience, but lacked a foundation in some of the most basic things you could imagine.

Why do you say that? Is it because you feel people on this forum are experientially incapable of providing the advice, or because its not obvious that we *could provide the advice? Maybe both?

I’ve dismissed that as a general mentality people choose to adopt. And the issues with that go way deeper than anything that has to do with recording.

Wait a minute…Forget Warren Huarts accolades and multiple grammy nominations. Totally take away the star power, and you still have a diverse mix of pros and non pros. If you don’t look at Warren, and only look at the paying members of that forum, you have plenty of people there who have no intention of running an audio business. To me, thats proof that it is possible to have a community can reach out to both. So what is the real root factor here that you feel makes hobbyist vs pro target markets mutual exclusives?

At its most practical level, for Holster, both hobbyists and pros buy guitars, for yourself (I think), both hobbyists and pros buy plugins. Right?


#84

I agree. I come here because I like the conversations we have here. If this site were for personal satisfaction, I wouldn’t change anything.

One of the things I love about this place is that I don’t have to put on a mask. I don’t view this forum as a marketing platform for me, and I’d love it if I never had to.

But I do know that keeping this thing alive isn’t free for @bholst. Given that it’s existence is resting on the shoulders of one person who could, at any moment, realize that it’s really hard for him to justify to his wife why he should be paying to keep the site alive, it becomes very volatile.

If Bryan is happy with the current state and the effort involved to keep it in its current state, then maybe there’s nothing to worry about.

I think plenty of us on here are very capable. What I don’t think anybody has is the incentive to take it beyond what it is.

I don’t think pro and hobbyist are mutually exclusive. But Warren has a target audience, whatever that is, and he works VERY hard to cater to that audience. He is not passively running his forum. He is actively seeking out and creating content to keep people coming back. That is a stark contrast to here.

If I had to describe our target audience here, I would say it’s a site that caters to everyone who stuck around on RR even after it was dead for a year. If that’s what we want the site to cater to, then great. I’m that target audience. But that audience isn’t going to grow. Ever.


#85

…by the way. Looks like Eric just pulled down the Womb forum. Too bad. They had been debating canning it for over a year now.


#86

I definitely need to do some cleanup as it pertains to the leaders. A few have had to drop out for now, although I expect they’ll be around in the future. Paul has been slammed with projects, and I know he’ll be around. And I’ve been slammed with IT work lately, so it’s been quite difficult to dive into music lately. It’s starting to open back up though, so I’m itching to get back to all this with some fresh ideas :slight_smile:

The newsletter thing has been something I’ve wanted to do for some time now. I’m decent at setting up the format and graphics, but rather lousy at coming up with fresh material that I think someone would care about. This is a specific area that I’d love to get some help with right away! Even if it’s just an email of rough text, I’m happy to make it pretty from there.


#87

The newsletter thing is hard if you do it week by week (or even month by month). I think it would be a good idea to sit down and come up with a year’s worth of ideas that you can use. And if some better topic comes along, you can always put that in instead. But if you are always trying to come up with a new thing for each newsletter, you will constantly come up on weeks that you don’t feel like you have anything worth sending out.

Then other weeks you’ll think of 5 things to send out. If you keep a backlog of good ideas, you can use those when you have nothing good.

Even a simple “Tip of the week” would be an awesome newsletter. We could all sit down for 10 minutes and come up with 5 years worth of tips of the week. It doesn’t have to be a long article, just a little zinger. If people want more info, they can come here and ask about it.


#88

THAT is an awesome idea! We can have a whole set of tips and add one and then pick a few interesting threads to highlight and BAM! Newsletter!


#89

If you are consistent about it, you’ll have people expecting it. And it will give you something to post on facebook as well.


#90

absolutely. It tackles a number of things simultaneously!


#91

started a new thread.


#92

Just to play devils advocate, don’t newsletters usually end up in peoples junkmailboxes?

But if there’s even a shot in hell at a newsletter being an overall to this site, I’ll gladly contribute some quick tips.

I’ve gotta gotta gotta get my video shooting chops in place. Grrrrr that’s been a task.


#93

There are definitely folks that will trash a newsletter, but I’ve been surprised at how many actually check them out. I’ve had decent success with it in the past anyway. The other cool idea was using parts of the newsletter to create social media content. All of this could be utilized in effective ways.


#94

The biggest group of people I think that uses these kind of forums are people who create or want to create there own music. Also some people who want to run there own recording studio, but with the trend of people doing it all them selves I think the balance hangs more to the writers.

Having a forum to talk about things is less interactive then you might think. Halve of the time you just need people you can work with. Why bother learning it all in detail, if there is a place where I can find people to collaborate with. If you help out people you meet here for low price or even free sometimes, and you get social media coverage in return for it, it could be good for either kind of person. If its a recorder or an artist, or a producer. The only thing you need to provide for it is a platform that people can use for that, and a social media network that reaches out to a big potential crowd.


#95

Yeah, but so what? No form of advertising or outreach works on everybody all the time. If your list is 10k people and only 5% of them open your email, that’s still 500 people, which is about 490 more people than we currently have frequenting this site.


#96

Hi Boz, I think you have a very good sense of how intrepret circumstances and to clearly define the points. I get that of you whenever I read your views.[quote=“bozmillar, post:82, topic:185, full:true”]
I think there are a few essential things missing from this site that prevent it from growing beyond the small crowd that it is.

A) Opportunities to grow. I don’t know about anybody else, but I don’t come to this site expecting to learn new things. I come here because I enjoy the conversation. Recording seems to have taken a back seat, the same way it did with RR. That’s not good if you want more people. I’ve kind of noticed that this site has become a very short stepping stone for people who are looking to progress and grow. It’s like we’re really good at providing growth for people only on a single point in their growth journey. Once they get past that point, this site doesn’t offer anything to help those people. Once in a while people stick around because they enjoy the conversation. But most don’t.

B) There’s no clear demographic. If this site is supposed to cater to beginners, then it needs resources that beginners can take advantage of. If it’s going to cater to professionals, it needs resources that professionals can use. But it doesn’t quite have any of those. It just sort of hovers hoping something will happen. There’s no overarching goal.

C) This site doesn’t provide any hope for someone aspiring for more. I think this is a huge one. If I wanted advice on how to grow beyond recording myself in my bedroom, I would not look for advice on this forum. Even if it’s not intentional, there is definitely a “Why would you do anything beyond what I do” vibe here.

I do understand why that vibe exists. I think the harsh reality is important, but I think we send a message beyond harsh reality and into cynicism.

I think the biggest reason this is the case is because it’s where all of us settled when we learned to record, enjoyed doing it, but didn’t want to do it for a living. I’m in the same boat. I absolutely do not want to ever run a commercial recording studio. But I think we provide essentially no hopeful optimism in that field. So anyone who wants to go that route is not ever going to come here for advice. And that’s what a huge number of people who want to record want to do.
[/quote]

Can you define what is it you want? is it about this site in particular or is it a reflection about yourself, meaning do you feel you want to evolve beyond your present circumstances, the one’s you have become comfortable with? Does that mean you could possibly drift away? and you don’t want that to happen?:pensive:


#97

I’m actually not sure. I just want to see the site grow. maybe there’s no good reason for that and it’s fine just the way it is. I just don’t see it surviving if it doesn’t grow.

Well, yeah, I guess so. I mean, it wasn’t really until I broke out of my comfort zone, quit my job and started my own business that I realized “oh, stuff can grow, but it actually takes work. Things don’t grow organically the way some of us like to think.” It’s extremely rare that a business or anything like it grows without lots of hard work. I don’t believe in the whole “If you build it, they will come,” idea. Building something is half the battle. Getting people to notice that it’s built is the other half, and it’s the half that takes a lot of experimentation.

I feel like we did the first half. The forum was built, but then it just sort of stopped there as if we were expecting people to pour in. We did a contest in the beginning. That brought some people in for a little bit. But again, we just sort of stopped doing anything.

If we want this site to grow (and maybe we don’t, which is fine) then it requires constant effort.

From what I can tell @bholst has tasked himself with keeping the lights on, but nobody is in charge of bringing in people. But it’s kind of a chicken/egg thing. Nobody is going to put in the work for it if they aren’t being compensated, and nobody is going to be compensated until there is some source of revenue. There isn’t going to be a source of revenue unless there are people, and there aren’t going to be people unless someone puts in the effort to drag them in. And so on.


#98

Yep, I’d like the site to keep going but it’s hard to figure out how… I sort of burned myself out being the friendly greeter at RR, a lot of that felt like payback for all the stuff I’d learned there… I really like that quick soundbite attention-grabbing tip idea though… just nuggets of quickreads… we would all have things that could fit into this but in reality there are so few of us still ‘active’…


#99

When we did that competition, I was surprised that more people didn’t stick around, but now we know.

I make sure I greet everyone here. I think its hugely important for first impressions.

haha… lol… funny. Just though about @Chordwainer copy/pasting his greeting.

Ugh…I know. But hang in there…I think we’ll figure this out.


#100

The good thing about the attention grabbers is that it works well on social media, which SHOULD help grow the crowd :slight_smile: